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Pantera percieved value

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by mr. green, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
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    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    My friend is looking at a totally restored Pantera. The seller wants 60k for the car. Most P-cars sell for 35 to 45k. If he buys this car for 60k will he lose money when he tries to sell it?
     
  2. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    $60K for a Pantera is extremely high. And I don't care what has been done to it, when one is priced that high, it will usually be for sale for a long time. May I ask what the seller has done to ask that much?
     
  3. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    Matt,

    I can tell you what I know. The car has been completely disassembled
    every nut and bolt has been replaced. The body has been completly gone through with all body repairs done in metal. The car has 10 coats
    of lacquer paint, All hand rubbed. The Interior is all brand new with connelly leather seats. The engine has been rebuilt from top to bottom
    using Hi-performance parts. The engine compartment is fully detailed
    as is the undercarriage. The whole bottom side has been powder coated.
    The car has upgraded radiator and fans. The car is owned by a Ford dealer no expense has been spared. This car has been on e-bay twice
    but has never met the reserve.
     
  4. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Well, all I can say is $60K is a hell of a lot for a Pantera. Don't get me wrong, some do indeed sell for that price, and for sure there are guys that have dropped that much, and more, into their cars. But I believe a very nice car can be had for half that.

    For reference, you might look at PI Motorsports. I think their cars are priced too high, and better prices can be had from seeking out a car from an individual, but consider it another market assessment tool:

    http://www.pim.net/pim1.html
     
  5. icars

    icars Formula Junior

    Mar 28, 2002
    855
    Plano Texas
    Full Name:
    Rodney Haas
    I would have to agree with Matt. Sounds like a BORA that was for sale in New York. The car is probably the very nicest BORA in the world but the guy wanted 100K+ for it.

    While I understand that both these cases probably have major money invested, it is simply not a good investment.

    In the case of a Pantera, either find a really nice one for 1/2 to 2/3 of the price, or:

    Purchase a rather ok car cheap
    Send it to DeTomasa
    Have the car stripped and restored

    It's very common you see cars there being restored. There are also several really high end shops that do this in Modena. Not to mention here in the US. And you get a custom interior and the mods you really want.

    Depends on how much you really want to do of course.
     
  6. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
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    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    You guys make alot of sense, I'm going to have my friend read this thread. If he still wants to drop 60k that's up to him. After all it's not my money.
     
  7. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    I had a 74 Pantera and it had modified engine, suspension, brakes, etc and was hard pressed to sell it for $40,000. Here is a picture of the engine.
     
  8. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
    6,146
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    GSgt Hartman
    I agree with Matt, $60K is defintiley high unless it's one of the GTS Panteras that sold for a lot more than the 71-74s. The price sounds like some personal attachement involved.
     
  9. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
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    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    My friend offered 50k for the car today, The owner of the Pantera turned
    him down. Not even a counteroffer, go figure.
     
  10. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
    6,146
    TX
    Full Name:
    GSgt Hartman
    Mr. G, tell your friend to look around. More affordable Ps in decent shape can be found. I agree with Matt, the PI listing seems WAY high.
    Also tell your friend to be VERY, repeat VERY careful about rust in the Ps, especially the rails.
     
  11. PWehmer

    PWehmer Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2002
    1,733
    Surrounded by Water
    It is worth a note that Mr. Green started a thread without pissing people off or saying stupid stuff.
    Congratulations- keep it up.
     
  12. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
    6,146
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    GSgt Hartman
    yeah, seems to happen with all too little frequency lately.
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,162
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    My trusted technician pointed out once that the Pantera was
    "the worst of both worlds, Italian coachwork, Ford engine!"

    His words, not mine! (Ducking!)
     
  14. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2003
    3,887
    Chicago-Phoenix-L.A.
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I don't know. I'm not really all that old,(43) and I remember when Pantera's were going for around $10,000.00 (and less) all day long,and not too long ago. Then,all of a sudden,went up to $25-35K. and up! I'd never pay that much for one,because I know that. But there are plenty of people who will. Probably the same guys that pay $60Grand for an old Camaro. (Not a Yenko) :) Or,$75Grand for an old Dodge Challenger-NO HEMI ! Yes,they're out there. Wished I had kept all of mine so that I could have taken advantage of these guys now. Oh well. So much for speculation!
     
  15. TestShoot

    TestShoot F1 World Champ
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    Sep 1, 2003
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    King Koopa
    I bought a 71 for 20k completely dis-assembled in 1991. Then the article about Wilkinson's 4.6l "Modular Monster" and the prices went up again, it was not until then that I realised I was taken for a ride.
     
  16. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    Sounds like a good car to pass on. Could be another classic example of someone who spent 30K( or more!!)to restore a 30K car. No shortage of examples, not just Panteras, that are out there where someone is upside down with the finished car cost after restoration vs current market. at that price, he'll be looking at it for awhile. But for every azz, there is a seat, so he could hook a live one at some point.
     
  17. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Sounds like the seller has just put a ton of money in the car and wants some of it back. The car will probably be for sale, for a long time.

    Tell your friend to hook up with one of the local Pantera car clubs if possible. The best cars often change hands within the club, and are never advertised for sale. A club can give advice on car hunting too.
     
  18. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    I'd say just the opposite, with the Ford engine being the most attractive aspect of the Pantera. You get excellent Italian styling with a reliable engine, that is cheap to maintain (when compared to the ludicrous costs of a Ferrari engine), and easy to modify.
     
  19. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Pantera's haven't gone for $10K since they were originally sold new, certainly not "not too long ago". They've only increased in value. If you think they are too much now, just wait 10 more years--they will cost even more, and then you'll lament the day they were "only" $30K.
     
  20. TestShoot

    TestShoot F1 World Champ
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    Sep 1, 2003
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    King Koopa


    Well I spent $20k on a $2500 volvo p1800 and i love the car more than my DB2/4 I loved the mods I did on my Pantera too, yeah I overpaid by some standards, but in thee grand scheme, it was still worth it for what I was looking for and what i got out of it
     
  21. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    i wanted to weigh in on this issue. this car sounds like a clear case of over restoration. that said...these cars are worth what ever someone will pay for them. 60 k may represent a bargain compared to the sunk cost to aquire the car and to similarly restore. while there are certainly several really good restored and original panteras in the market, my recommendation would be to buy a properly restored car as this one due to the improvements that have been done to the mechanicals and maybe more notably the body! these cars are the ultimate in iron oxide. always but the best car you can afford...you will pay less later.

    last observation...a pantera buyer is a bit rare and as such, i would suspect there are more good cars for sale than good buyers!
     
  22. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    Gentlemen,

    Thanks for all your Insightful observations.
     

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