News

Plasma, DLP, HDTV,..Help!!

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by davem, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,450
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    I recall some of you are audio/videophiles. I need your assistance.
    Looking to purchase new T.V/Moniter. For lets say under $4,000, What is the best picture. This is for the family room, from Barney videos to Speedvision and everything in between. Im thinking nothing bigger than 40ish inches but nothing cast in stone here. Room is large enough 22sq. ft.
    Sony XBR seems nice, but this reminds me of my first day at F-chat. Im lost.
    Plasma, rear projection, CRT, LCD,DLP??

    Also im in the NYC metro area. Curious as to true HDTV an best way to obtain coverage. Cable, satelite, etc...
    Thanks for your help.

    Dave
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. lesterm

    lesterm Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    608
    Durham, NC
    I bought a plasma tv for my bedroom. They are certainly very cool, and do not take up much space if you wall-mount them. To make the installation seamless, however, you need to have the tv professionally installed and have the bracket mounted into a recess in the wall with a place to hide the wires.

    Since I don't watch tv that much, I bought a Sampo for about $3k. The picture quality isn't bad and it has a lot of features. There are some artifacts and whatnot when dealing with blacks, but nothing that bothers me at all. If space and looks are an issue, I would highly suggest going for the plasma.
     
  4. BWS550

    BWS550 Wants to be a mod

    Apr 1, 2002
    8,933
    NEW JERSEY
    Full Name:
    BRUCE WELLINGTON
    DAVE

    I BOUGHT A 57 IN, WIDE,HDTV FROM CIRCUT CITY, 2 YEARS TO PAY , NO INTEREST, FOR 2300.00 FOR MY 500 SQ FT TV ROOM.LOOKS GREAT......ALSO FOR SPONGEBOB AND LIZZIE MCGUIRE TO FORENSIC FILES AND HUMAN DISECTIONS.......

    LES..............WHAT DOES " THERE ARE SOME ARTIFACTS AND WHATNOT WHEN DEALING WITH BLACKS............" I DONT GET THAT.


    BRUCE
     
  5. lesterm

    lesterm Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    608
    Durham, NC
    On my plasma, the black really isn't pure black like on LCD or CRT monitors. Instead, there are some color differences, albeit small. For some reason, plasma tv's have trouble displaying pure black.
     
  6. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,450
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    Bruce. Whaddya think 40 inch screen too big for my 22sq.ft. room!!??
    Meant its 22' by 22'. Im snowblind!
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. GuardsRed

    GuardsRed Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    129
    Alexandria, VA
    Full Name:
    Sam
    The Wall Street Journal just did a comparison between RPTV, LCD and Plasma. Their conclusion was that a good quality LCD was the hands down winner. Plasma uses a gas and can burn images into the screen (such as the Fox News logo for conservatives and Clinton News Network..CNN for liberals...just kidding guys..) and LCD does not. The manufacturers have fixed some of the issues with LCD namely problems with images that are fast moving such as sports. You can get up to a 40" that is about 3 inches thick. Build that into a wall with a quiet cooling fan, build in speakers, DVD, AMP, SS and you are set.
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Read the WSJ article. Then buy the best. A regular TV.
     
  10. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,450
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    If someone can post the article from WSJ that would be great.
     
  11. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    45,897
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Here are a few thoughts to help you decide: The best image will come from a serious front projection TV, either big 3 gun CRT or some of the more exotic light valve stuff (don't ask me to explain) which is out of your budget, requires a dedicated room with low ambient light ( ie,dark) and will also usually require additional equipment like line interpolators when dealing with a lower grade source. Forget it, unless you can put up with the picture quality of the cheap projectors, which you should sample, just to see what is currently offered. Aside from price, the cheap projector will still require proper room/light/setup to look right.

    Plasmas are "hot" these days, but, in my estimation, even the good ones (read over 15k dollars) look artificial.

    Rear projection is not anywhere near a clear looking or as bright as front projection, and usually takes up space although there are slim line models today. I don't generally like the look of the picture on these, and remember, judging them in a showroom is not an ideal environment.

    Jim is right, for the money, a conventional CRT may still be the way to go.Traditionally, accuracy was lost on CRT tubes over 19 or 20 inches in size. Look for a TV that permits some adjustment to color temp. (how blue the white will look) since most sets are adjusted to "pop" but are inaccurate. Sony is not necessarily the "best" TV in all cases; their designs are pretty nice, but not all of them are even made in Japan. I had one i bought several years ago, 30" picture, weighed something like 179lbs., cost over 3k $, but it was a pro-style monitor. Most of the consumer stuff is not built to that quality. Proton used to be famous for a very good "black" on a set that was not esoterically priced. Dunno if they've held their own lately.
    The Sharp Aquos is a nice set, i have the 20" which we bought for the kitchen, works well in high ambient light (bright environment), pretty good resolution, not good for off axis viewing; looks like a "plasma", it is very thin picture frame style cabinet. They now make an HD 37" one, but you'd have to check the retail price. I'm sure its high, particularly since it is new. You can call Izzy at the Stereo Xchange, and use my name. He has one of the best eyes in the biz, and the store has access to many brands. Good luck and let us know what you decide.-
    ps. in poking around on the web, i found that the 37" Sharp may be in your budget when deeply discounted, and a site, below, carries alot of product and technology descriptions. http://www.audiosound.com/whatis.html
     
  14. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
    3,697
    Wilmington, DE
    Full Name:
    Alex Lee
    It's been a couple months since I've followed the TV scene, but last I heard, the Samsung DLP is/was THE TV to get for picture quality. Go out to your local Tweeter or whatever store near you that carries these TV's and take a look between these and flat panels for yourself.
     
  15. Hubert888

    Hubert888 F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    May 14, 2003
    5,376
    Manhattan & LA
    Full Name:
    Hubert
    Flat panel LCD tv's last longer than the Flat panel plasma tv's if you are interested in lifespan of them.
     
  16. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    i'd temper alexlee's suggestion about visiting the store only with the caveat that stores almost never have the televisions set up (calibrated) properly. in fact, they usually use the factory settings which are frequently set by the manufacturer to flatter the set. back in the day (mid-90s), in the big RPTV market, sony did red best, mitsubishi did geometry best, and somebody else did blacks best. so each set came tuned for that and you'd walk into a local store and they'd have the T2 entrance setup on the sonys (all those flames); they'd have something very b/w on the other thing, and they'd run test patterns on the mitsubishi. (my memory may not be quite up on this, so don't crucify me if i've mixed stuff up).

    the point is that, unfortunately, stores are the worst place to do critical viewing (never mind the flourescent lights!).

    also, if you've got kids in the mix, consider buying something you won't mind replacing when junior puts his sippy cup through it :). i have a 50" plasma and when i turn it off i see monster-prints all over the screen and i cringe. thankfully they've yet to break it, but i definitely underestimated my ability to keep them away from the damn thing; as well as their ability to pay attention and listen :).

    front projection setups are WAY expensive to do right (in part 'cuz you'll have to ceiling-mount it due to the kiddies). the latest units are VERY nice, but i don't see how you can do a screen, projector, and installation within your price range and make it worth the effort (never mind the hassle).

    if you've got plenty of space, but a big honkin' RPTV. you'll easily get the best bang-for-the-buck in square inches of image, and they don't suck none, for sure.

    doody.
     
  17. tiggs

    tiggs Rookie

    Nov 11, 2003
    32
    Given your requirements, I'd highly recommend the Samsung 43" DLP as the perfect fit. For example, you can buy one online from the good guys for $3200 including free shipping and no sales tax. You'll get the best picture quality under all conditions in comparison to rear projection, plasma, and lcd. Plus, the DLP is not as bulky as rear projection but still not quite up to LCD/plasma thin-ness.

    Having dealt with all 3 in the past, my personal beef with the plasma is the picture degradation. Besides burn-in, my old plasma had its black color change to dark green shades over time(yuk!). As for rear-projection, size was a concern but also alignment issues seemed ever-present. LCD tv's make great secondary sets and I love my 23" Still, as a primary set, DLP is hard to beat right now if picture quality is your primary concern.
     
  18. cbrody

    cbrody Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    35
    Southampton, NY
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Dave,

    I have been selling plasmas for about 5 years now. The best screen for the money is the panasonic. They have two models. One with a charcol bezel and no speakers for the low 3K and one that is silver with speakers for upper 3K.

    We have a showroom out in southampton and do alot of work in NYC. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

    Chris

    Crescendo Designs
    631-283-2133
     
  19. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    "On my plasma, the black really isn't pure black like on LCD or CRT monitors. Instead, there are some color differences, albeit small. For some reason, plasma tv's have trouble displaying pure black."

    That is because there are different levels of black...
    You need a waveform monitor to be able to tell the proper setup level.
    Digital Black or "Super Black" as it is sometimes refered to,
    will register 0 ire on a scope, while standard NTSC black will register 7.5 ire on a waveform monitor.
    Some componets will introduce the standard NTSC setup to video.
     
  20. karmavore

    karmavore Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2002
    1,641
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Luke Colorado
    what's DLP?

    Luke.
     
  21. mr. green

    mr. green Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Oct 31, 2003
    263
    I'm surprised no one mentioned Pioneer. They use the highest grade parts in the Industry. Whether you buy there wide screen's or Plasmas
    you can't go wrong. (Do yourself a favor stay away from the commercial
    dealers, find someone who specializes in home theater they usually
    have more knowledge)


    Good Luck
     
  22. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    karmavore: take a look at the link i included in my post. There are some effective graphics that describe the technology.
     
  23. jeff

    jeff Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    1,924
    North America
    Davem
    Presently I own a 43" Pioneer Plasma. In the last 4 months I have owned a 60" Sony XBR LCD and Samsung's 56" DLP. Here are couple of things to think about. If PIP is important to you, Sony is the best by a wide margine. Samsung is the worst. If you use the stretch modes to watch regular tv (not HD) then Pioneer is the best followed by Sony. Samsung is awfull. As far as picture quality goes, I like Samsung. Especially if you have a lot of light or windows in your viewing room. The Samsung has a matte, anti glare screen that is amazing. My friends liked the Pioneer plasma picture the best. Lastly, I no longer own the Sony or the Samsung because their cooling fans MAKE A LOT OF NOISE. I can't tell you how annoying the noise was. It's a deal breaker for me.
     
  24. karmavore

    karmavore Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2002
    1,641
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Luke Colorado
    giddy up!
     
  25. Artherd

    Artherd F1 Veteran

    Jun 19, 2002
    6,588
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ben Cannon
    The only Plasma I will touch in any of my designs is the Pioneer 503CMX right now.

    This is Pioneer's 'industrial' rated version of their 50" plasma monitor. (the difference is in the power supplys.)

    All plasmas, Pioneer included, have issues with colour gamut, pallet, and black level. Additionally, most plasmas cannot be viewed any closer than 10' or so (the 60" sets about 15' due to larger phosphor pockets.) withought seeing visable checkering.

    The pioneer set has a blackened glass (much like sunglasses) to hide and temper the inherent flaws of Plasma technology. It does work, to a degree.


    But a $2,000 CRT will absolutely slay a $30,000 plasma in terms of colour accuracy. And a HDMultiformat Sony Broadcast Monitor is what films and HD television is shot and balanced ON. They are the reference. You will not find one at the Good Guys though! (they're over ten grand and that's for a 20")

    Do not even bother with the rear-projection (dlp or tube) type 'TVs'. They have horrible hotspotting problems, and are cheaply constructed.


    And lastly, as whart mentioned, the true reference is front-projection in a dedicated room.

    When done right, with a good screen, 9" tube projector, and scalar/quad compares more closely (and often favrouably) with 35mm film in the typical smaller multiplex theater.

    It looks nothing like 'video' or television. Truely amazing.


    But back to your question. Pioneer's 42" plasma screens are also pretty decent, though depending on your room and viewing position, may not be the best choice. For positioning, you actually can walk into the store and back away untill the uglies dissapear. You will also see what I mean about blacks once you look for them (compare to a good Sony HD regular tube TV.)
     
  26. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    659
    Saint Augustine
    Full Name:
    Dave
    The best TV is not yet out. It is LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon). It is supposed to produce a better blacks and be sharper and have much higher resolution than LCD or DLP.

    I have never cared for the picture quality of Plasma.

    We have a 40 inch panasonic LCD and it is pretty good. At 40" you don't see a lot of pixelation like you would an a 60" sony LCD.

    The fan noise is really annoying though if you are just watching tv and it is a quiet part in a movie or show. I wish they could have fixed that.

    Make sure the TV you buy also has a DVI input in the back because that is what is used on the latest generation of DVD players to upscale the signal to 1080i.

    I must say, with my DENON 1600 and this panasonic, the picture on a DVD is superb. I am very happy for now.
     
  27. Norm512TR

    Norm512TR Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2001
    892
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    Full Name:
    Norm
    If you're not completely confused yet, I'd suggest that you jump over to the AVS Forum site. There are a lot of guys there with good experience in all areas of HT. And even a few FC guys such as Doody.

    http://www.avsforum.com
     
  28. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,450
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    Thanks to everyone for thier help and suggestions.
    I went with a Sony Grand Wega 50" lcd. Then of course i had a case of whileimatit. So i added a Harman Kardon DVD and reciever, with polk Audio speakers. Now waiting for the cable HDTV box. Very happy
    I think in my next life i will be born into the Monster Cable biz. Who knew wire could be so expensive......
     

Share This Page