Please explain to me a $111,000 355 | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Please explain to me a $111,000 355

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ferrari Fanatic, Jan 29, 2019.

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  1. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

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  2. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    same results on hagery which is broader. but maybe its the start of a trend. guess well see. I think its a lottery winner buying his dreamm garage.
     
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  3. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Well if u are a lottery winner u buy a better 512Tr than the one he bought: it needed a paint job, service etc. Either that or he doesn’t sue his due dilligence;)


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  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Its probably not someone like you... new money no sense. hence my theory. car was in the right place right time.

    just a theory is all.
     
  5. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,739
    North Wiltshire, UK
    That would be a reasonable deal in the UK. If it was red it would be a good deal!

    But then we don't get done over on the servicing like you guys in the US.
     
  6. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I’d bring it to Ed China from wheeler dealer in the Uk for service lol;)


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  7. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Could be a broker finding cars for people that have $$$ and dont want to look themselves? Remember the VH1 Corvette Giveaway?
     
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  8. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Why is that? Some UK law?

    My last engine out in NC was $15k. People in the US said I had a good deal but guys in the UK said I paid appx. $5k too much.
     
  9. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,739
    North Wiltshire, UK
    No law or anything; you guys in the US just seem to pay more.

    Fixed price major with belts here is crica $2000 through a reputable independent. With the "whilst your there" items you'd expect to be around $3-4k; that would get you the standard bits and bobs such as tensioners and water pump etc.

    Main dealer would be slightly more but not a whole bunch as they tend to give reasonable rates to older cars; although extra stuff can quickly add up!
     
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  10. bcar1

    bcar1 Karting
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    I don’t HATE his taste- probably would have skipped the 560sel and waited for a better 308/328 option...

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  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I thed to wonder is these aren't apples-oranges comparisons. From other threads dropping the engine is about 6 hrs. Assume the same for reinstalling it. So 12hrs x $150/hr = $1800 in labor to start. A major service kit from Ricambi is $1600. So we're at $2400 without any labor to do the actual service work. Parts from Ricambi include

    1 x RIGHT VALVE COVER GASKET
    1 x LEFT VALVE COVER GASKET
    4 x CAM SEAL
    4 x O-RING
    2 x CAM O-RING
    8 x SPARK PLUG O-RING
    2 x END PLATE GASKET
    1 x LEFT PLUG GASKET
    1 x RIGHT PLUG GASKET
    2 x FUEL BLOCK O-RING
    2 x TIMING BELT
    2 x TENSIONER BEARINGS (HILL ENGINEERING)
    4 x CAM BOLT O-RING
    1 x FUEL FILTER
    1 x OIL FILTER
    2 x AIR FILTER
    8 x NGK PLATINUM SPARK PLUGS
    1 x PS BELT
    1 x ALT BELT
    1 x AC BELT
    2 x WATER HOSE
    1 x S-WATER HOSE

    And we still need engine and trans oil, coolant, brake fluid power steering fluid, AC recharge..... So say another 16 hrs labor and we're at $5000 easily.

    I'd really like to see an invoice for a $2000 euro major. When I look at EuroSpares a major kit it is $177 but only includes air, oil and fuel filters, timing belts, and accessory belts. Add $300 for fluids and perhaps you can do a belt swap for $2000. But if you're talking about a major as I outlined above, I can't see it. Now, whether you really need more than a belt swap is another issue to be kicked around.
     
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  12. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,739
    North Wiltshire, UK
    I’ll dig out the last major receipt for my 348 when I get a minute and drop some links to garage websites with fixed prices advertised.

    As a starter we are at £80-100ish for labour at main dealer depending on your relationship with them. (For a modern Ferrari they will charge full rate st £150). Indie is a bit less but around £80 ($105) an hour. We do have to pay 20% tax on those rates!!
     
  13. RRRREDRVR

    RRRREDRVR Karting

    Jul 28, 2004
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    M Kitchen
    Completely rational, in my opinion. Some points to consider...

    Forget, for the moment the major service issue (which quickly becomes a non issue on a $100K+ Car). They ALL need them. It’s just a bit more costly, and they’re done all the time. It’s a cost of ownership. If u can’t afford it, don’t buy one.

    1. $111K is likely less than half of what it cost new.
    2. The F355 was a milestone car, still under Enzo’s watchful eye. It’s performance benchmark was way ahead of other Ferrari’s and the competition at the time.
    3. Glowing reviews from all critics. J. Clarkson’s favorite car then. He bought one.
    4. When Dino’s are $400K, 308s $100K, the 355 should really be $200K or more. Based on style, performance, usability, rarity.
    5. ‘94/95 models are 6 spd, rarer, & OBD I (no complex computers needed to service).
    6. We’re approaching the end of the depreciation cycle, and beginning of the appreciation cycle.
    7. The 100k+ mile examples and ratty mistreated ones are disappearing. Recall when some 308s were <$20K?. No more.

    Ok, full disclosure. I own a ‘95 F355 GTS, red/tan, 50K ecstatic miles now. I bought it in 2001 with 17K miles at a higher price than the recent auction Spyder. Owned two 308 GTSs prior to that. According to my own analysis of 355 Registry info there were only approximately 36 to 70 94/95 F355 GTSs imported to the US then. I did not analyze Spyders, but it may also be a low number. Like others suggest, buy one now. Mine’s not for sale....yet.
     
  14. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

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    You might want to recheck #1 and #2....
     
  15. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Correct.

    1) My 98 F1 GTS new was: $146,321.00

    2) Enzo's last involvement was the F40 and he dies in 1990 before the 355 was in existence
     
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  16. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    Please don't feed the Trolls, Kevin.;)
     
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  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Maybe in todays dollars.

    No, Enzo died 7 years earlier. Luca di Montezemolo's over saw the evolution of the 348 to the 355.

    Owning a 1 owner, unmolested 85 GTB, I wish.

    The majority of 355s are 6 speed, 3pedal cars. Both OBD I and OBD II cars require an SD1 or higher to get deeper into the diagnostics, much different that reading codes.

    355 prices bottomed around 2012, 13. Been up and down since. Where it goes from here is anyone's guess.
     
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  18. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    It's really all SD1. When you use an SD2, you just port SD1 software thru it ;)
     
  19. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
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    on a 96 obd 2 and 95 if there are check eng lights on drivabilty concerns are you saying the 95 is easier to track concern than the 96 for the techs?
     
  20. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2012
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    Reputable indy specialists in Germany charge in the region of 2500 euros (2850 dollars) for a complete major and in the UK it's even cheaper because of the weak pound.

    My guess it's simply a question of supply and demand or the "US Ferrari Tax": Ferrari owners in the USA are charged more and agree with that.

    Check out these links (the first one used to show prices on the website but not anymore):

    http://www.ferrariservice.de/

    Just parts:

    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ferrari-355-5-2-Service-Kit-Kundendienst-Teile-Zahnriemen-Spannrolle/111579070911?hash=item19faa181bf:g:zkUAAOSwtbBbZT1s:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

    Same firm but parts + labor:

    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ferrari-F355-355-348-Mondial-T-Zahnriemen-Zahnriemenwechsel-mit-Spannrollen/121600421268?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20140117130753&meid=081e5473979846e7a72069105e8ca64d&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=151840470841&itm=121600421268&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

    Another one: 2350 euros

    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ferrari-Service-Zahnriemen-Zahnriemenwechsel-348-355-F355-Inspektion/151840470841?hash=item235a65b739:g:VJoAAOSwDFNWFA6b:rk:4:pf:1&frcectupt=true
     
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Well, as you point out, no link where it say " Information on current fixed prices can be found here" for the first site, so useless.

    The "Just Parts" link list parts comparable to what I listed (Ferrari 355 5.2 Service) for approx. $2000 which a little more than what Ricambi charges. So no way the service would be $2850 unless they are charging $850 for labor plus fluids which makes no sense at all.

    The next one, Parts and Labor appears to be a belt swap plus fluid change, not a complete major with cam seals, plugs, tensioners....for around $3000US.

    And the last site seems to be a belt swap as well at $2700.

    So, as I said, these appear to be apples and oranges comparisons.
     
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  22. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Quoted $8200-$8500 for major at reputable (only) shop in Dallas. Without water pump rebuild. Seemed a little high to me. A major without additional needs should be in $5500 for a reasonable labor rate. As you get into the higher rates then it seems to be $6500+.

    But you have to trust the person doing the work and the one thing I have learned on Fchat is by all means pay for good work. Pay, pay, pay. A poorly degree’d set of cams, poor valve cover install or basic malaise is not worth $1k or even $4k. I will pay and support good work.

    But would love that detail from a good Indy at $5k or so


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  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    I don't know if these are current as they are from a years ago. I though they were from a sponsor but he has recently been banned so I won't post the shop name. Don't know exactly what constitutes a "major" either.


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  24. bcar1

    bcar1 Karting
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    I was quoted about $5,500 base rate for an engine out w parts/fluids but no “while you’re in there’s” from 3 highly reputable Indy’s in the nj/ny area last summer. Add a few lifter rebuilds and a water pump and that’s probably more like $6,500 assuming nothing major pops up. Quotes came from my top 3 choices- not sure where higher numbers are coming from.
     
  25. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

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    #200 GerryD, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
    Totally different car. I cringe when looking at some of those pics of the yellow car.
    The big gap in 355 prices from the cheapest to the most expensive are not unusual. 10 years ago a Dino was worth about 100gs and ones that needed work were going for a lot less. There were a ton of them on eBay asking under 90gs and there was even a British racing green one for sale for $89,000 and nobody bought it for months. Now a perfectly restored Dino can go for half a mil. In 2002 to 2003 a 355 was selling for a lot more than their original sticker price. Some body parts on a F40 are now selling for more than the value of a 355. Prices are just numbers and when someone finds the car that they picture "in their mind" to be perfect, they buy it and in many cases, they don't care if they pay a little more. Im sure that if a Dino was selling right now for $200,000 that it would be gone before the person posting the ad hit Enter on the keyboard.
    These types of discussions have been going on here for over a decade. Those that own these cars think they are worth more and those in search of one think they are too expensive. Those looking for a sub $50gs 355 either never end up buying one or end up crying about the repair expense. You can't make everyone happy. All I know from having been around these cars for a long time and now working on them, that if I was looking to buy one, I would pay more for a good car long before buying a fixer upper.
     
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