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Please say it ain't so !! (A GTO story)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by rocketman, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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  2. 375+

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    Several sold for less. Kirk White purchased a package of three 250 GTOs for $20,000.
     
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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #4 miurasv, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    36 250 GTOs built. John might want to look into the accident history of 3647 to know exactly its past which he has no idea of. I don't say this as a negative thing against 3647, as I am pretty sure the car will have been repaired to exacting standards in period. 3647 is said to have been sold to Robert Sauers in 1966. I don't think (m)any Miuras would have been delivered to any customers and have been out in the wild by then, as customers didn't start getting them until 1967, for anyone to see one and want to replace their existing car with one, although there surely would have been press articles about the sensational Miura.
     
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  4. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    $9500 was a lot of money back then for a car that was basically useless. It was too old to race, (no historic racing venues yet), a poor street car, very hard to buy parts for. A brand new Corvette or a house was less expensive in some parts of the country. There are many other old race cars that were bought and sold back then for less money. One of my old customers paid $4500 for a Pontoon fender 250 Testarossa. My dad passed on a type 51 Bugatti grand prix car for $2500 in the early '60s.
     
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  5. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Bill Chizar?
     
  6. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    In 1984 instead of buying our first home I should have bought that pristine SWB for $90k. How stupid, I could've bought the SWB and we all could've lived in it for the next number of years, then I could've sold it and bought four homes. :)

    john
     
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  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    live in a SWB? :)
    but bought this SWB and lived in a rented rooom what be a possibility :)
    later everyone has more knowledge
     
  8. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Yes, if I had had an understanding wife she would've let me get the SWB. We could have put a sink and a toilet in it and it could've worked fine. It was just for a few years, not for ever.
     
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  9. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

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  10. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    in 1974 or 1975 I bought my 1st 250 GT/E for about 6 month salary from a garage owner who was not able/ didn´t want/ got no money from the former owner.
    engine dismanteled in the trunk, missing oil pan, missing wheels, swiss paperworks, so not imported official to germany, not payed customtax, birds inside building their homes. but I have been then the owner of a ferrari with 20 years, self payed all :)
     
  11. miurasv

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  12. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula Junior
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    Embellished stories like this always annoy me. I don't like getting involved in these types of things or debates, but I couldn't stand this one any longer. The owner of this GTO is a good friend of mine. The "reporter" car dealer John T. who told the story in that video got a number of things completely wrong, which is a little surprising based on his grandfather having owned the car at one time. Revisionist history told by an 'armchair expert' strikes again. That's why I really don't like videos like this told by 'arm chair experts', with incorrect facts.

    This would have been a better story...if... John T. had not gotten so many things wrong. Problem with stories like this is that once they are out there, too many people, through no fault of their own will think/believe it is true & correct. The fault lies strictly with the story teller who should have spent 30 minutes of time/effort getting his story completely correct, which it is not.

    The current owner always had a great appreciation for Ferrari’s, really wanted this car and knew it was special from the very beginning with no thought of future investment value. He has always appreciated this car for what it was in the era in which it raced.

    Below in order of appearance are most of things John T. got wrong in his video or at least should have known:
    1) How many were produced - why doesn’t he have the correct figures? Should have before making the video.
    2) He is wrong about the actual private selling price of $70 mil.
    3) Never in any major accidents?!! What?! It was wrecked twice.
    4) GTO’s went up in value & price more than “a little bit” in the 1980s - prior to late ‘80s that he also refers to.
    5) This car has never been at Cavallino. I wonder what he saw there that he thinks was this car.
    6) Anyone who is seriously involved in the collector car world does not, and did not need the internet to track down this car and who the owner is.
    7) WTF?! Wayne Carini, F40 Motorsports??? He has nothing at all to do with this car and does NOT “manage this car today.” Carini has never taken care of this car, etc.
     
  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #14 miurasv, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
    John doesn't seem to know much about his grandfather's 250 GTO or 250 GTOs generally. 3647 is a 1962 car, not a 1964 car, which has a different body shape. The 250 GTO that was stated to have sold for around $70 million was not a 1964 car. 8 RHD 250 GTOs were built. There is even footage at 1'24" of the crashed 3647 at the 1963 Goodwood Tourist Trophy, in the video he made. See post 12. 3647 was also very famously crashed the year before at the 1962 Goodwood Tourist Trophy, with a collision between John Surtees, in 3647, and Jim Clark in an Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato, and then later in the race, in its crashed state, and at rest at the side of the track, was whacked by Robin Benson in 250GT SWB Competizione 2735GT. 3647 also had an accident at the 1963 Nurburgring 1000 Km, where it overturned. There are pictures of it on its roof.
     
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  14. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    Hi All,

    I cannot disagree with you guys! Honestly, this was a last minute entertainment video I was shooting for a dear friend. If you have ever had to be on camera for more than an hour or two it can be exhausting!!

    This story is part of 10 videos we shot over the period of one day, back to back. Trust me, I am sure that if someone spewed mis-information about Countach or Miura examples, I would be pretty upset.

    I am in no way an expert when it comes to Enzo-Era Ferraris, I don't claim to be. Unfortunately, a lot of the information I gathered was rushed and sadly my grandfather passed away many years ago. Unlike Miura, Countach or Diablos, I have never driven a GTO, been involved in a transaction, etc.

    A couple things of note!

    I was definitely wrong about F40 Motorsports. I am pretty sure it was KTR Racing in the North East that was handling the car. I definitely got the two confused.

    Reading your insight, I confident the RHD 250 GTO we saw at Cavallino was NOT Chassis #3647 and at the time confused the history with another RHD GTO. Most likely, #3729??

    In terms of timing I am aware of the following;

    They ownership chain occurred sometime in late 1966/1967 as;

    -Bob Sowers ordered a new 1967 Jaguar E-Type FHC for his wife, that ultimately was purchased by my grandfather, when new. The car is still with my father today.

    -My grandfather and father arrived in the GTO to Mutual Ford dealership in Massachusetts after the Le Mans win of the Ford GT40 in 1966.

    I appreciate all of your input. Sorry if I upset anyone, this was not my intent!
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    It was good to hear the story, and I of course recognized your name....

    No harm, no foul with me....drive on!
    I think that MOST of the surviving early Ferraris, unless family ownership for generations, would follow the same pricing escalation!

    I recall talking (street) Dino values, with JRV once:
    "Well, Al...they were rusting when they were new, so IF you kept them indoors for the last forty years, they still survive, so those $250K (at that time) prices, INCLUDE the house!!"


    :D :D :D
     
  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    So what is your excuse for the misinformation in the video you made last year in post 12? ;)

    Actually you have posted Miura misinformation as there were no Miuras in 1966 for your grandfather to have bought, sold and had for your father to have any experience with them and to have preferred it to the GTO as a reason to sell it and then buy a Miura. Personally, I'd redo/edit the videos in order that they contain correct information.
     
  17. Ed Niles

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    I have somewhere between 130 and 140 of those stories. So what? (Do they have an emoji with copious tears?)
     
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  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I think they do but only on iPhone, my internet gf uses it....
    :D :D :D

    Not often, of course...
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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  20. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

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    These pictures are in Keith Bluemel / Jess Pourret GTO book, I do not have it where I'm standing now but the credits are probably in the book (or maybe you just checked and did not find them, sorry if my post is useless ;) )
     
  21. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Thanks. It's Phipps Photographic.
     

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