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Poor man's P4 replica project

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Horsefly, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
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    May 14, 2002
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    I stumbled across this UK website documenting one enthusiasts construction of a P4 replica. And it is Ferrari powered. (Well, a V8 Ferrari anyway.) But what's a poor englishman to do when James has the only unbuilt P4 in his garage? Times are indeed tough. The average Joe must be content with a replica. I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen driving it. http://www.collinsclan.co.uk/Pages/Cars/P4/P4.html
     
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  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Looking good.

    I myself would have to replace 75% of that horrible (IMO) blue water hose with alloy pipe and nice and short black hose ...

    I do not have a problem with him using this sort of Ferrari engine because the 348 is still a baby and lets face it NO where near classic status as yet. Thus all new stuff is still being crashed and wrecked everyday (as they will be as some drivers actually give them a scary blast every now and then ... and thus some fall off the black stuff ... so what it is new or near new and there are plenty of them).

    I do worry about the brakes being able to pull her up, but then I guess it should be alot lighter than a 348 ...

    In the end I guess he will have a blast. Will it be better than a 348 ... hmmm, well a 348 is 100% a real Ferrari, and this car will always be a kit car. What will he use it for? ... er, I do not know of a race series for it ...

    Good on him and all though.
    Pete
     
  4. Martinb

    Martinb Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Martin Bewsey
    Mark is a UK member of FerrariChat, he also drives a 355GTS.
     
  5. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    Great looking build example! It seems that I lot of thought and design work went into building the replica....and no expense was spared (BTW a used 348 drivetrain is not cheap to come by)...

    Very nice work and personal pride....Nice ride :)

    VK
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I agree Great Job and a car that will be alot of fun.
     
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  8. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
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    Jul 2, 2002
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    Thanks everyone

    Pete

    I'm worried about the Brakes as well! although it's about 400Kgs lighter than a 348, it'll likely be the 1st upgrade, fortunately the hubs are the same as use on the Prosport race cars so theres some nice 4 pots etc available.

    Engine is from a crashed Italian registered 1991 348 which had around 26,000KM's

    No plans to race it but there are some series over here for replicas and even one that mixed real and replicas with David Piper etc, it's going to be my Trackday toy to replace a series of Caterhams :)

    Arlie

    I wish I could have James's real one, unfortunately by comparison I am poor :) I would say that James has been aware of my build for around 8 Months and has been both helpful and gracious


    It's away for Paint at the moment will post an update on the site when back in 4 to 6 weeks
     
  9. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,218
    ny
    fantastic!! this is one amazing project. is there a kit with chasis etc available? is the body fiberglass? about how much for kit if it exists? please keep us utd with lots of pix. thanks
     
  10. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
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    Mark Collins
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Mark
    None of us who Love and are Loved are poor. :)
    Pete
    The brakes on the original aren't too great either!
    Best
     
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  13. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
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    Tom
    I maybe wrong but did that guy use copper brake line in the engine compartment that goes over the rear bulk head? If he did...don't get in front of this guy..can you say "pop!!"


    Tom
     
  14. Bob308GTS

    Bob308GTS Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2001
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    Bob Campen
    Looks very well done, checked out the kit, about $22000 for the basic kit shipped to the US, not too bad
     
  15. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
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    Jul 2, 2002
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    Tom

    think the pic you are looking at is the front bulkhead but I'm interested in your comment, why would you not use Copper in an Engine compartment assuming adequate clearance from heat sources?
     
  16. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,395
    MO
    Very cool. If I had some $ and a NSX donar I would make one. (I would never be able to afford a Ferrari donar car. :p)
     
  17. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
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    Jul 2, 2002
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    Auraraptor

    The Ferrari bits were not that bad!, for info a rough breakdown of costs

    Kit (Chassis, Suspension, bodywork and glass/ lexan) $16,000
    Engine Box and ancillaries inc Dry Sump ECU's, Engine Loom etc $14,000
    Car Loom,Wiper,Lights,Brakes, Hubs etc $2,000
    Wheels/Tyres $2,500
    Paint/ Interior Finish $7,000
    All the other bits $10,000

    Note these are UK prices converted to $
     
  18. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Mark, what about your cooling system? Is that 348 or other donar?
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Mark, I can answer that if you do not mind.

    Copper work hardens, and is actually illegal for brake pipes in atleast New Zealand because of this. I know this because I used to scrutineer cars for club meets.

    I guess with the engine heat this will increase this work hardening process.

    I did not notice this ... too much else to see for the brain to comprehend :D ... but I personally would not drive a car with copper brake lines. Not worth the risk IMO.

    I believe though it is a common idea for restorations in England (I have seen some restorations in English magazines use copper brake pipes ...) to use copper because it does not rust like the original likes ... so I suggest you talk to somebody knowledgeable where you live about it.

    Pete
     
  20. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
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    Mark--VERY cool project. Can't wait to see the final product. My question: Is there a reason for painting the bodywork after mounting, rather than before?
     
  21. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
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    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    Mark, I didn't know that you were a fellow list member when I stumbled across your site. There was another list member named NickM who was working on a P4 spyder replica out in California that he purchased off E-Bay. Haven't heard anything from him for awhile. I think that his car was not an NF replica but something a bit older from another company. I see no disgrace or shame at all in having a nice replica like yours. Wish that I could find out more about the older replicas like NickM had and see if any of them have merit. There are probably a few forgotten kit car projects wasting away in barns and garages that would be a lot of fun. The real world truth is that the originals are simply unavailable to almost everybody. So why NOT build a replica and have some fun. I would guess that since NF Auto is located in England, there are more of their replicas on your side of the pond than over here. Most kit cars over here are of the Volkswagen conversion types. Not good.
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Especially a P4 replica is IMHO not a poseur car. It is too obvious that it can't be the real deal (unless you live in the state of NY...). Nobody would just casually drive it (no offense Glick, I admire your attitude).

    P4 and also 250 GTO replicars in my opinion are not poseurs, but reenactment cars. Just like some weekend warriors are 'playing' the Civil war, you guys give us bystanders a chance to marvel at a sight long gone. I thank you for that.
     
  23. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    I agree tifosi....

    This P4 replica really has me thinking. When my 911S hotrod project is finally finished.... a replica/kit project may be next on my list.

    There is a company that builds an extremely accurate 917K replica that accepts late model air cooled 911 power. A 1500lb 917K with a 3.8RSR engine giving 400hp sounds like a real hoot. Add a turbocharger..... 650hp puts it in line with the original. Or perhaps the P4 replica. Doing the P4 with 348 or even 355 power sounds like tons of fun. With those open pipes..... its got to sound incredible. The only other replica I may consider is the Superformance Cobra Daytona coupe. All of these are just fantastic!

    I tend to lean toward the 917, but honestly it may be a bit too much. That type of power to weight ratio with that little crash protection..... not sure its the smartest idea Ive ever had!

    My hat is off to Mark. That is one incredible project! <S>

    Terry
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Mark..

    Copper is not strong enough for the hyrulic forces acting apon it when braking. brake lines are double rolled steel designed for high pressure use.
    copper as a metal is way too soft and will expande and contract with brake pressure. The double rolled(standard) brake line is designed not to do this. This effect can result in an unexplained low brake pedal(mushy feeling). Copper also has weak spots in it as well due the way it is made And could possiably burst Copper was not ment for high pressure use.
    Here in canada it is against the law to use it on a car for any reason including for fuel.
     
  25. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,597
    Pacific Palisades
    Mark,

    I've always entertained the idea of buidling my own car. And I have come across N.F. Auto Development before as I love the P4. I have a question:

    How close to authentic dimensions is the kit? I've noticed from cross-referencing photos that the distance (on the kit) from the leading base of the windscreen to the front axle line seems longer than on an authentic P4. The rest of the car seems spot on.

    Thanks and I look forward to your future updates (living vicariously).
     
  26. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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  27. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
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    Jul 2, 2002
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    Tom/Pete

    thanks for the info on Copper, yes it is common to use it in the UK for brake lines, I will talk to some people over here about the safety aspect!

    Gilles, I think the paint would get damaged the other way round

    Aura, the rad is kit specific, alu tubes are with the kit and the rest is just silicone, expansion tank is from a 355

    Need4Speed, it's not far off, I think it is about 4" longer which was added to get your feet behind the front axle line which is a legal requirment these days
     
  28. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Tom
    How do you feel about Stainless Brake lines? Pensky used them on my Lola.
    Best
     

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