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Possible Mondial purchase need advice

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by JLF, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    Wade O.
    Importing a 25+ year old car is doable. My 1992 Canadian 348 was legally imported two years ago. Just find someone who's done it before otherwise be prepared for lots of hoop jumping.

    Call John at http://www.cawleymotorsports.com/
     
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  3. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    Thanks for the info Wade. The problem with the silver car I like is that it’s NOT 25 years old so I don’t know if it would be possible to import it.

    JERRY
     
  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
    10,337
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    Paul Chua
    Hi Jerry,

    Welcome, first let me say great choice. I think the Mondials are great values in the Ferrari world. Lots of urban myths about this car, and you've already done what 99% of peanut gallery folks don't do = actually research and learn about the car. The fact you can wrench yourself is already more than half the battle.

    $61,000 will allow you to get the cream of the crop. If you're looking for a coupe, it's going to be hard to find a low mileage one here in the states - can't give you any advice on imports.

    Best wishes and hope to see you as a fellow owner soon!
     
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  5. enzo360

    enzo360 F1 Veteran
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    Aug 1, 2004
    5,185
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    Jurgen Durand
    Hi,
    just like Hans I'm not that far from RnR.
    I had a look at the car two months ago and it's as good as in the pics.
    Best
    Jurgen
     
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  6. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Paulchua pm sent.
     
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  8. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    Jerry, I hope this helps you too:

    I've been trying to track all auction prices for Mondials - I appreciate the PM, don't hesitate to ask more questions. Another thing I love about the Mondial community is just how awesome Mondial owners are and their willingness to help others (owners or prospective)

    Cheers
     
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  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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  10. Temple

    Temple Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2015
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    Yup, the BaT t-coupe that sold for 45 had been at Marshall Goldman for several months with a much higher price (I think 59k).
     
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  11. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    1,068
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    Jerry
    It is hard to track all pricing, because many of these cars change hands privately, often between members here. Probably a higher confidence level.

    I bought mine directly from a member within a couple of days of it being posted for sale. Smooth transaction, car fairly represented and seller was great to work with. I had a higher confidence level because members post about their cars, good and bad. So I came away with a very good car, after passing on a t coupe a couple of years earlier that was a lot closer to me.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
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  13. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Thanks Jerry.

    Jerry
     
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  14. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    Feb 9, 2014
    4,082
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    Hi Jerry

    Take your time, don't be in a hurry. You'll find the right car.

    It took me about 18 - 24 months to find the right car for me. My requirements, which are probably different from most, was to find a mechanically sound car that showed a consistent history of use -- every year of it's life. That meant high mileage. Cosmetics weren't much of a factor in my search. My reasoning was that a car that was driven almost every year of it's life should have been well maintained.

    When I finally found the car, it was in Sacramento Ca at an independent broker (Salerno Motorsports). The car had 65K miles on it, but was in almost perfect mechanical condition. Yes, windows and sun-roof were either slow or non-functional. But the drive train and suspension were in superb shape. Mechanically, she was a 9. Cosmetically -- probably a 6 (the interior was probably a 3).

    In 3+ years of ownership, I've only had 1 major failure, which was the alternator. Cost me $110 to have a local generator/alternator shop rebuild it.

    My point is -- don't rush. You will find the right car. And you'll meet a lot of nice people on the journey.

    If I haven't mentioned it before -- you will have a blast. These cars are great fun to drive! They sound great and handle great. Did I mention that sound? It's amazing -- especially in a tunnel or underpass!!! The only downside is that the lack of power steering makes the car heavy at slow (parking lot) speeds. Once you get her up to 10-15, no problem. They drive very sweetly.

    Sid
     
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  15. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Canada
    Your budget should indeed position you for a nice example, but the issue is how many nice examples are actually available at a point in time, and the hard top preference shrinks the pool significantly. Pretty sure you will end up bringing one over from Europe, so worth getting prepared for how that gets done. I have had my 3.2 for a dozen years now, even then it took me three years to find one to my requirements, it was a cab that had just been imported from Switzerland by a local exotic dealer. The Swiss cars are among the best examples out there, in that the owners seem disposed to maintain them well, garage store them, the interiors don't get sun damaged and they do not drive them to high mileages. Probably still the case today as a good place to hunt.

    I do my own maintenance as well. You should know that compared with Porsche, parts availability and pricing is not near as good, and even used spares are also scarce as the production numbers were much lower. You get used to this, it is what it is. I have some friends with pre war high dollar classics, and they fabricate parts from scratch when they have to, but their cars are worth fortunes so the expenses can actually be recouped on resale. With the Mondial and its narrow following, it is not reasonable to expect the car will be a successful investment.

    I cross shopped the t against the 3.2 and determined the 3.2 was the easier car to maintain as a diy enthusiast. The cab with its front engine access panel (the hardtops do not have this) and belts and clutch changes through the wheel wells allows for pretty much everything short of a full engine rebuild done engine in. There is a more technical simplicity with the 3.2, and the mechanicals are the last of the perfected 308/328 series, and generally viewed to be very well built at that time. I found the t power steering to be an advantage, but the cable shifter not as precise. Otherwise the t and 3.2 (both cabs I tried) drove similarly, the t felt a bit more tail end weighted, and the seats were a bit unusual feeling (there are webs that in effect tighten the grip on you when you sink into the seat cushion). The t's have their fans, and the market for t's has always been a bit higher so that's the market verdict on which is the preferred car, but since I was in your shoes with an open mind to choices at the time, thought I would share the experience.
     
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  16. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    @sidtx,

    I don't remember, but I assume you have a 3.2. The t does have power steering (along with adjustable shocks), and the power steering is extremely unobtrusive.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
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  17. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Stil think you have to consider a 3.2 over a t. Reading (to) much about clutch/transmission failures in this and 348 section. You only find out after a few hunderd miles/km that there is a problem with it.
    So to save you from a future disaster $$$$, dont say you're not warned.

    Guido
     
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  18. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    Feb 9, 2014
    4,082
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    Hi Jerry

    I have an 85 QV.

    When searching for my car, I looked at a local t convertible, and (remotely) looked at a t coupe that was in GA (I think). The need to drop the engine for timing belt change was a factor that moved me to look more seriously at the 8, QV and 3.2 My adult son and I do all of our own maintenance, so we wanted something that was easy to work on. Also, the t has more computerized functions (suspension I think) that I didn't want to have to work on.

    I've been completely satisfied with the experience with my QV. No regrets at all. I take her to most of the local car shows here in the north Dallas area, and she's always well received. And, because my interior isn't perfect, I let kids sit in the drivers seat. For most of them, it's the first Ferrari they've ever been allowed into (let alone touch).

    Sid
     
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  19. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    #41 JLF, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    Thank you guys I really appreciate all the advice and the pm’s back and forth. I really only want a T, I have removed engines in Porsche’s several times so if I ever have to do it in the future I think I could probably do it. Probably being the key word. If not I fortunately have a Ferrari maintenance shop like 3 miles from my house.
    I currently have my eyes on a red one. Just hope the owner will work with me. If not, I’m going to save up an extra 10 grand over the next 4 or 5 months for all the shipping and fees and duty’s and try and get one from Europe like the silver 94 in Belgium for 61 grand. It would be a massive pain in the butt but worth it I think.
     
  20. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    By the way this is a very friendly and helpful group! Hope to be hanging out in here soon.

    Jerry
     
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  21. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Another f chatter told me about this a little. Can you elaborate on the trans problems briefly? Is that something I could notice on a test drive or Pre purchase inspection?


    Jerry
     
  22. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Can you still get a tubi exhaust for these cars?
     
  23. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

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    Jerry
    I seem to remember that there were two different clutch setups for the t. One for the early (89) and one for the later ones. Single disc vs. twin disc?

    I have put about 13k miles on mine and not a hint of a problem. I can even start in 2nd gear if I am facing downhill and use a gentle release or I am rolling just a bit. YMMV.

    Other than the typical balky 2nd gear until warmed up (Redline MTL helps, but I wait until oil temp gauge starts to move), transmission has been bullet proof. You need a firm hand to guide it into gear, but no issues.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
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  24. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    If you have a lift, and have done the Porsche engine outs then the Mondial is certainly doable as well. More important than the cam belts being changed are inspecting the related idler bearings, they are what causes the belt failures. Many use the high quality Hill Engineering bearings. With fresh belts and good bearings, you can reasonably defer the belt changes to longer than Ferrari otherwise specifies, and that makes the t verses 3.2 choice a bit easier.

    http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/catalog/engine-related-tensioner-bearings-related-c-102_9.html

    Tubi's appear to be widely available, Nicks Forza lists a number of the exhaust brands including Tubi.

    http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1_004.htm

    The 89-91 t's had the double clutch, thereafter the single one. Not clear any one is "better", but the single clutch flywheel if it needs replacement is now very scarce. The early cars to mid-1990 had the Bosch 2.5 Motronic verses the later 2.7 version. The later system had some self diagnostics, some say that the engine was designed for the 2.7 but Bosch was not ready til production underway. Generally viewed as the better system, but really just appears different and part of the ongoing quest for better emissions at that time. If the 4th digit of the VIN is an F, then the 1990 car has the 2.5; if the fourth digit of the VIN is an R, then the 1990 car has the 2.7.

    The 348/t engine had some production improvements which would be in the 92-93 years, extract from another fchat thread as follows:

    1. 05/30/91 differential side seal— production improvement
    2. 05/30/91 Bosch starter motor changed to Nippon— production improvement
    3. 10/10/91 cam seal housing modification —reduced oil leakage
    4. 10/10/91 double plate-clutch changed in favor of single-plate clutch— production improvement
    5. 10/10/91 new alignment specs —improved handling (348 only)
    6. 10/10/91 improved mounting of front bonnet grill to address warpage
    7. 10/10/91 front suspension shocks and springs— production improvement
    8. 06/01/92 rear A-arm fix point height reduction— production improvement (348 only?)
    9. 06/01/92 Delco Alternator changed to Nippon— production improvement
    10. 08/18/92 door grills —improved strength (348 only)
    11. 08/24/92 oil sump tank ground strap— improved gauge operation
    12. 11/03/92 front timing bearing— reduced noise
    13. 08/18/93 harmonic balancer replacement —reduced weight
    14. 08/20/93 clutch thrust bearing/slave —production improvement

    For equal condition (which will never be the case), the 92/93 might be worth a small premium over the earlier years, but probably trade that way anyways as there were fewer of them.

    Happy hunting!
     
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  25. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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  26. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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  27. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    Wade O.
    968?
     
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  28. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Yes
     
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