Possible to get a decent 360 for <= $60k?

Prices have been going up over the last year. Waiting a year is more likely to hurt you than help you.

If you want a good car for under $60k, I think the answer is to look at well-maintained cars with north of 40k miles.

 

I try to follow the prices of the stick shift coupes because that is my favorite 360 and from what I have seen of the sales ads the prices dipped to their historical low sometime in early 2014 and have climbed slowly since then. There is a dedicated thread about this in here someplace. It's called "Gated Modena Market"
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Well, I have been looking at 360 and found that the prices could be so low vs so high. With gated shifter, one member here said he would put it for sale for $250K. It is his car and I have no objection to it.

Reality check... I have seen 2000 - 2002 F-1 models with around 15K miles are listed for $75 to $85 near here in So Cal. Lots of inventories though... There are 2 cars around the corner where I live, 2002 Blue with Red interior with 47K miles for $71K. The other one, which was silver but repainted to white with 12K miles at $79K.

I wonder how it would react on resale value when you paint the car different from original?

 

They can ask whatever they like! I'd love to be a guy who found Ferrari's in shades of green the ultimate color for the car. I'd love it because then I could have my dream car at a discount. These unique cars take a while to sell for a reason. Blue and bright red.. there simply aren't alot of people that WANT their dream car in that color. As far as repaint.. the whole car and not a bumper into a different color? In general that's a price reducer. But people can ask what they want. The key is you can't make a generalization on a bile green 360 on pricing as you can a red one.
I suspect that when you buy a new Ferrari, if you spec it in red or black or yellow, they'll be more ready to sell it to you than if you do some exotic color to match your eyes. Reason being when they have to sell it used a red one commands more money than burnt fuschia.

 

I don't think you can buy manaul for less thank 60k . Curt and I have manuals and neither of us would sell for less than 60k. I have over 60k miles and would not sell for that price . One reason is why would I, i have a great car ,dependable and replacing would cost much more.

 

unlikely to find a "decent" gated for $60k.
But I think F1 is very doable depending on how you define "decent"...does that include mileage over 40k? some maintenance required ie tires, belts, clutch? some wear and tear typical of a 15 yr old car, albeit not usually a Ferrari? less popular color?
heres an example:
Ferrari 360 Modena | eBay

ugly as sin, kinda tired looking, been relisted lots of times, Im sure you could offer $60k and get it. Peel off the wrap and the headlight tint, leatherique the interior and you have a potentially less ugly but somewhat bland Ingrid Grigio Modena.


if youre flexible I think its likely. and I think its going to be more likely over the next 12 months. I don't value asking prices (which are admittedly high), I look at actual sales and days on market as true indicators of value. right now seems to be a stalemate with these cars...high asking prices but few takers. increased uncertainty in the market and summer winding down will put more pressure on *some* sellers. so my vote is wait for the right one for you.

 

I've seen this argument here before recently, that asking prices are increasing but sales prices are not. 3 questions:

1) What phenomenon do you think is causing asking prices to all of a sudden increase after 17 years on the market, even though sales prices are not increasing? That seems really odd to me.

2) Neutral evaluators like Hagerty are showing a clear increase in values. What error do you think they are making? What are they doing wrong? https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/2000-Ferrari-360

3) Where are you getting the "actual sales" prices you are using to form your opinion that values are decreasing?

I just cannot fathom any reason that asking prices would all of a sudden shoot up across the board 17 years after the car has been out while sales prices are dropping. That would be pretty unprecedented.

I would also think a place like Hagerty would have much better data than we do, and they are showing a clear trend up.

 

Good questions!
1) id say just plain old capitalism/opportunism. IOW, monkey see, monkey do..its worth a try, really nothing to lose by pricing high because its easier to drop a price than it is to raise one once its been posted. and because most F-car owners are financially stable, they don't face the pressures to sell as in other markets. and dit doesn't cost anything to put an ad up.
We see that in real estate as well, at least around here.

2) I have no proof, but personally think the data theyre using maybe flawed or out of date. Besides that, they aren't buying the cars so to some extent they can say what they want. if theyre an insurer, id like to see some stats that they've paid out claims of those values or some anecdotal accounts. IMO, the only opinions of a sale that matter are the seller and the buyer, collectively.

3)Im just closely watching the market. After a while, you see the same cars over and over again, some ive seen for over a year....then a lower priced one appears and is gone in days/weeks. I have no knowledge of what it sold for, but even just assuming it was at the asking price can tell a lot. that to me, is the true value of that car, or pretty near it. That's why whenever graphs are posted ive pointed out that the asking price without tracking days on market, is weak data. I can buy a $90k 360 spider tomorrow and list it on the market next week for $500,000...using your rationale, that means prices just went up! lets all do that! Yippeee, time to retire! in reality, not if it wont sell for that price. we just embarrassed ourselves trying to "fix" the market.


all that said, this is just how I look at it. theres no right or wrong. Use whatever criteria you believe in for purchasing/selling, and I'll use mine. Hopefully we both end up happy!

 

I think I need a 360 modena .... instead of another 355 ..... gated would be best .... but a good F1 example 'might' work also ...

 

I happened to meet up with my buddy last night. His is 2002 360 Modena, Rosso Corsa and interior? I do not know... It used to be tan but with the shrunk dashboard, he changed the seats, redid the whole interior including the dashboard with suede. My jaw dropped. The whole interior was suede... Even seats... They weren't Ferrari seats but I could not see the difference. They looked extremely similar to daytona seats but in Suede. Upper dashboard was black and lower was red. He had all kinds of nice mods including CF engine bay completely including air box covers, door knobs, etc.

He is like me not afraid of driving the car so his has 40K+ miles on it. He thought about trading it for 430 or 458 and the dealer quoted $50K for his 360. I am sure the dealer will take it for $50K then not do a thing but flip it for $70K. He had Scud wheels and challenge grill. I thought that car was unbelievably in a great shape.

I do not think 360 will depreciate further where demand is even picking up further due to attractive prices in the market already. Well driven cars (40K+ miles) will be picked up around $70K (Which I already see and dealers will try to do to make maximum profit). This is also a good point that the price level will be at least stablized where less driven cars (around 10K Miles) will start to come out of lots of garages from people that have been waiting for this time to come.

I assume there will be some mixed signals in the market for next 2 years then who knows what will happen? low mile F355 Spiders (F-1) are listed for $85K+ now. Who would thought that in 3 years?

I am not a Mesiah but with my limited knowledge, above is what I can think of right now. It is time to find a nice 360 !!!!

 

I'm hoping to purchase a 360 F1 within the next year and from the UK, I'm very interested at £45-60K. But if prices do climb higher I'd rather save extra and get a 430 F1 instead, I'm sure other people will follow?

 

That doesn't explain the trending change, though. F-car owners have always been financially stable, have never faced pressure to sell, it has never cost anything to put an ad up, and its always been worth a try, monkey see monkey do. Yet, until recently, asking prices have steadily dropped along with sales prices. Why the change?

You acknowledge there is a trend up in asking prices over the last 18 months or so. What has changed? That's where the argument of the "rising ask but falling value" camp really falls apart, IMO.

What is different now than two years ago that is causing asking prices to all of a sudden stop correlating with sales prices?

Their data being out of date really doesn't explain it. The trend is there, even if it's months behind. Prices dipped, evened out, then started rising.

So you formed your opinion that prices are dropping just by eyeballing that some cars have not sold?

You are wrong about my rationale. My rationale is not that one person listed a spider for $500,000 so it means prices went up.

My rationale is that the average of all asking prices has been trending up, including dealers and private sellers. Unless there is major price fixing collusion among sellers, I think its fair to say that prices are rising (just as Hagerty and NADA say).

That's why I asked you those three questions. I'm wondering if there is any basis to suggest that after these cars have been selling for 15+ years, all of a sudden asking prices across the board are increasing while sales prices are falling.

It sounds like there is nothing out of the norm you can point out to explain such an odd, sudden increase in asking prices across the board as values drop. For now, I'll maintain my opinion that values are increasing.

As an owner, I am generally curious and interested in whether the value is increasing or declining. I'm open to discussion and could be convinced either way, which is why I asked those questions. Just wondering if there was something I could have been missing.

 

It has weird silver headlight buckets, but at 63,000 it sounds like a deal.

 

It's pretty clear they've stopped depreciating and prices have bounced up a little, but is it because 360s specifically are going up, or is it just the markets and economy improving in general, increasing the value of all used exotic cars?

It looks to me like Gallardos, Esprits, 355s, NSX, Vipers, etc are also on the rise.

It will be interesting to see if the trend continues or if they start coming down again when the markets fall.

 

There are so many well known people predicted that the market would fall this year. Peter Schiff who claimed to be the one predicted the market crash in 2008 May didn't come true at all. Is it something we still should be worried about?


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Everything goes down when the markets fall, it is because people feel "poorer"
But the 360s would not go down much because the rebound has been very little from the bottom, but Maranellos, 308 and testarossas that rose like rockets would be affected more.


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Oh I have no idea. I just wonder if the 360 is going up due to inherent characteristics of the car (like Supra or air cooled Porsches), or if the 360 is just trending up in general with the markets like everything else right now.

Just fun to track/follow I guess.

 

I think this is a "very fair" statement.

 

People who have been in the game far longer than I say there is a predictable flow to the markets impression of an older Ferrari. I think the characteristics of the car support a higher price in the future. What else is there that is a 40 valve mid engine V-8 with 400 hp that is made entirely out of aluminum? How much are those?

I think the consensus is that the typical Ferrari usually depreciate to a level and then start to climb back up over time. Unless there is some kind of big flaw in the execution. Some may think the curvy-ness of it makes it hard to extrapolate how the future will view it and others, self included, think that it has some fantastic design cues from well received models in it that will be looked upon favorably.

Wheel arches like a Dino and big functional headlight features like some great racing cars of the past. Visible engine vanguard status and simple and functional 5 gauge analog interior that, to me, will be classic and desirable forever. To me the design is balanced inside and out and that creates a lasting desirability. I am optimistic about how the future will view the car.

Then there are the styling cues of the car that are being introduced into other popular brands over time that sort of reinforce the desirability of the older car. Note the new lower rear effects of the latest Mustang.

Definitely fun to track and follow and talk about.....and to own and drive as well!

 

Woah...this sure blew up quick....

Well, I went to Atlanta Maserati/Ferrari (I had originally wanted to go to inquire about a PPI for a Maserati with 9k miles I was considering, but ended up being a pile o' ...), but I checked out a few (overpriced) 360's while I was there. they had a few gated man. and a few F1's...I got back in my DD (a super low mileage '05 Chrysler Crossfire), and just loved the transmission..so I'm definitely going to have to do some thinking on whether I could live without the manual, because it looks out of reach.

So I need to drive an F1. I don't want to regret selling my Corvette (and probably the Crossfire also, I have a company car and a truck to DD) but I want to see if it's worth compromising. I need to test drive one, no idea how to make that happen. I talked to the lady there for a minute and the look on her face when I mentioned a 360 for $60k said it all, but she was very nice about it. How do I drive one? I don't plan on purchasing one locally unless a stupid good deal comes up. I was working so I didn't spend a ton of time there, and really didn't talk to a salesperson yet. I'm assuming they don't let anyone off the street take one out and I don't want a hard inquiry on my credit report until my house closes.

 

If you really want a manual and not an F1, regardless of price, regardless of it being a Ferrari, don't do it... I think you would be better off to keep saving instead of taking a depreciation hit on the F1. A high miles, somewhat worn 360 F1, and/or odd color will take time to sell when you want to go chase that dream manual a few years from now...

 

That's sort of my thinking, I guess I just want to see if it is just THAT good that I no longer care when I drive one...and I realize it probably sounds ridiculous talking about buyer's remorse on a Ferrari but I've never owned anything but manuals and like I said, I'd be buying to drive.

 

Im starting to think theres really 2 markets at play here and theyre doing different things.
Theres the high end retail segment eg the CNC's, IAG's, F dealerships, etc...their prices are high and steady.
then theres the lower end segment....private sellers, ebay, less specialized dealerships etc....this latter segment is the one Im watching and where im seeing volatility, flat or lower from last year.
I have no doubt that the cars is the first segment are superior (in the sense of lower mileage, less wear and tear, more complete, better provenance etc) to those in the lower segment. I just personally cant justify the price delta. law of diminishing returns and all Others will.
At the same time, theres several cars on ebay in the low 60's currently, so I think its doable if youre willing to compromise. that may not leave a dealership the margin theyre looking for though, hence the response you got. they aren't NFP's after all

FWIW, Im in the same boat as you. ive driven standards all my life, so I don't really understand what all the hype is about...but some less than positive reviews of the F1 (mechanically and experientially) have me concerned. esp when the Lambo guys make similar statements about their egears.
my wifes Subaru has paddles and I don't enjoy them, but that's not a fair comparison Im sure. and its not easy getting test drives on these cars. private sellers are cautious. dealers don't want to take them out of the showrooms lol.

 

You raise some really good questions....that Im not able to answer. as I said, Im no expert. you could be right I could be wrong and vice versa.
Im just going by what Im personally observing, and that's all that matters to me...and that is that a lot of cars on the higher end seem to be sitting and most of the actual sales I see are on the lower end. I cant tell you "why", I don't understand myself really, what makes certain cars go up or down in value other than some of the more obvious factors ie economy, desirability etc. Not to mention regional variances. for example, when I bought a car during the late 2000s recession in the US, I found the best deals were in MI and FL...not surprising, since they were among the harder hit areas. Does this still exist in some areas today? I don't know. But i think id rather be a seller in Socal than in Omaha.
I can pose similar questions...is the 360 the next 3x8 or the next TR? Why? arguments can be made both ways.
"why" markets do what they do is likely more important to you as an owner than it is for me as a shopper. I don't have any skin in the game yet.

The only point I try to get across is, value discussions are all academic until you go to actually buy or sell a car. making determinations of value based on asking prices is as flawed as if we were to make determinations of value based on offers. Buyers lowball. Sellers "highball" One side of the data without the other is artificial.
Theres likely observer bias on both sides as well.
To an owner, I wish you luck with your sale when the time comes. I wouldn't worry about values too much before then as its out of your control.
but as a future owner, I intend to be as cost efficient as I can be Im sure you were once as well. I have no intent to offend. I am perfectly comfortable with anyone reading my posts thinking "that crazy Canadian guy has no idea what hes talking about"

 

I don't see why they wouldn't go down when the markets fall- these cars were produced in relatively high numbers and if the market tanks/people lose their job/etc prices will move down. Some people will have to sell either to put food on the table, or just because they feel guilty with money sitting in the garage for a toy (and they will resent even more the maintenance bills- maybe even defer maintenance, which will further depress the value of that particular "asset"/car when it is eventually sold.) These are toys not investments.


The original poster has to budget for (1) completing any deferred maint on the car he buys (there will always be something to do) and (2) budget for things to break- F1 pump, header pre-cat, Mass airflow sensors, suspension, etc etc. Nothing is cheap on these cars. Things that would cost $100 on a corvette cost $800 on a Ferrari...

Better to buy as best an example as you can as you'll pay more to make one right- so you may have to go above your budget to get the right car, and have some money aside to get parts/repairs/maintain the car.

I'm not saying don't do it....just go into this with eyes as wide open as possible to maximize the chances of enjoying the experience vs. regretting it.