Problems with Miller Motorcars

Shady at best, noted in my personal log not to do business with them.

 

Hi Ken. I think, unfortunately, first buyer takes the car, unless you are a well-known and established customer to them. But I'll be disappointed too if it happens to me.
It's better that you knew ahead of time, rather than finding out when you've already made the trip.

Best,
Ron

 

Hi Ken,

I would find it very hard to fault Miller or Werner given what you have described. I have known both and done business with them for twenty years and never had issue of any kind.

I am sure if you asked Werner for a pre-purchase agreement he would have provided one.

You should never risk spending any expense money on an inspection, test drive, PPI without first having a formal purchase agreement that protects buyer and seller interests and clarifies timing for the transaction as well as payment and delivery expectations.

No dealer wants a deal to go bad and no buyer wants to be taken advantage of.

We have a strict policy that any vehicle may be inspected, tested by anyone without restriction of any kind but that all vehicles are always subject to prior sale until a purchase agreement is signed.

We are also very hesitant and for the most part to allow a purchase sight-unseen especially the first time we do business with a new client. Our business has been built on repeat business and one those clients who only bought one car but gave high praise to others about the experience.

We don't have a perfect success rate and I would guess 1 out of every 200 clients goes home very upset by their purchase. Thats the nature of sales and you try to do what you can to make sure the purchase matches the clients needs without causing to much friction.

Most of the time there is plenty of time to coordinate inspections, test drives and evaluations of a potential car. Any dealer that tries to pressure you into a rush purchase is not worth doing business with.

Most importantly always remember never to worry or sweat about the car you don't get. The ones you do get will give you plenty of grief to make you soon forget about the ones that got away!

Cheers,

Bill

 

I personally know and respect Werner immensley.. Had a nice visit with him at the Dealership this past Saturday AAMOF.
Werner is highly knowlegable and respected in the Ferrari circles, and the Dealership (formally Chinetti's) is as well. In purchasing cars over the last 40 years, all vehicles of high end nature are subject to sale without either a deposit or a pre-purchase agreement of some sort.

 

I would say your experience is a "freak of nature." Many times, money talks and just because you have a 330 GTC doesn't mean people know who you are or assume you can afford to buy anything at anytime. Werner is a stand up guy, as is Miller Motorcars. What I believe probably happened was that there was a miscommunication at some point and someone did not realize that there was a deposit on the vehicle already. I'm sure if you express your concerns to WErner, he will rectify the issue to make everything right, because that's the type of guy he is.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Did I miss the part where Ken actually put a deposit down?

While I agree the circumstances sound unfortunate, expressing verbal interest and making arrangements are a lot different to a dealer than someone willing to put money on the table.

I'm not questioning Ken's intentions to complete the purchase, but there's a reason the expression "Money talks, bull **** walks" exists.

The whole situation sounds like unfortunate timing. Usually, Ken's approach would land him a car. But (especially as a first time client of Miller's) there was more he could have done to secure the car while he did his due-diligence... a small deposit and pre-purchase order would have gone a long way.

 

First guy to actually write a check or wire funds wins. Law of the Jungle.

Yes, it's unfortunate that plans were made. And, Werner should have disclosed that earlier, if he knew about it. But, IF there was legitimate activity on the car, he should have given you the opportunity to wire funds first.

Anyway, there will ALWAYS be other cars to buy. Every time I miss a car, another one comes along. Frankly, I need a LOT more $ to buy all the things I want.

CW

 

Imagine this situation for a moment.

The car is on the floor without a hold sign on it because there is no deal. All there is at this point is a definite maybe.

A buyer comes in and says "The price is fine. I'll take it."

Is the seller wrong to accept? What if the seller says to the buyer "no".

At what time was the seller obliged to indicate your interest, or call you and say there is other interest?

A bird in hand comes to mind from the sellers perspective.

I understand your dissapointment as well.


In parting I will say that when I see something that I want very much (usually the irreplaceable) I don't miss. Anything else I will replace. If it is lost to me, I don't care.

 

Sorry but still do not fault Werner or Miller.

Given the circumstances as described. Will check with Werner and get his take on it.

I promise you without fail, anyone who expresses an interest in one of my vehicles will be treated like heaven sent. Pretty sure Werner hates to turn away business too.

I always offer full access, test-drives, independent inspection options just about anything you can think of to assist in someone's decision to purchase. Anyone who expresses an interest in doing so is always offered the option of a formal agreement with the understanding that if a vehicle meets the buyers needs, he will perform as outlined in an agreement within a specified time. Any thing that fails to meet the buyers needs simply the mean the deal is off or the price is adjusted to reflect the economics or possibly a found issue. Most times we do not even ask or want a deposit. That will depend on the timeliness of the purchase as well as other possible sales opportunities that may exist.

In any case we also always explains until an agreement is reached, 1st buyer who steps up becomes the machines next potential custodian until they say no and pass. Then its back to square one or onto a back-up buyer.

Once an agreement is in place, all other interested parties are advised and told their interests are appreciated but at this time we are seeking only "back-up" offers.

Like I said, most time having such a transparent way of doing business usually works. A very small fraction of our buyers whig-out anyway and have buyers remorse down the road and sometimes even the next day. It goes with the business and you learn after twenty years to try and weed out the potential problem buyers as best you can.

I bought a Daytona from Werner. He agreed to let me "fly and buy" if the car met my needs. Asked me if I wanted an agreement that specified my intentions and his position on the sale. We came to and easy agreement and I flew out the following week, me him, saw car, played with it bought it and sold it a few weeks later to a great first-time client in Canada who still has it. That was almost twenty years ago. Would do the same thing again today if opportunity presents itself again.

Just my opinion... but in this case, one I am sticking with.

Bill

 

dude, dealer is selling the car, another salesman have a ready buyer with check, so how does the boss tell the 2nd salesman he can't sell the car because werner's client has shown interest.

if you were really interested you should had thrown down a deposit subject to good inspection. no different from buying real estate. wait ten days to see a rare vintage ferrari? so what does miller do for those 10 days? not do business?

many people in this world who can write a check for a vintage ferrari.

 

100% correct..................maybe the salesperson slipped up in not suggesting a deposit be taken and an agreement signed off subject to you performing due diligence, and maybe you slipped up by not offering one and by being more clear. My advice is to let it go, Ferrari made more than one 250PF.......in every transaction I do, if the buyer won't give me good faith money and sign a piece of paper they have no rights if someone else comes along who does, and they get told that clearly and in terms they can understand, almost always in writing via e-mail so I can CYA later on when they whine about it. And sometimes they do when the car sells quickly. I am a car salesman, ergo, no one believes me anyways. In fact, I ask them if they are clear and have no misconception about what that means. Now, if I have sold someone 4-5-6 cars in the past and as a result know them personally very well and they are away for 2-3 days I "will" hold something......but nobody, and I mean nobody, gets 10 days grace without a deposit and a deal. First one to the register with the cash in hand wins. It's a business, not a museum......and sometimes I even put it that way.

The reason I never call someone up and say "Hey I have a guy who is going to give me a deposit today if you don't" is simply because it is downright tacky.........you're the buyer, if you are interested enough to come and see it 10 days later, but are not interested enough to offer up a refundable deposit beforehand, you take your chances, and no where was it incumbent upon me to ask you for one. A sharp salesman always will.........but 98% of buyers normally rebuff the request anyways.

 

Sorry Ken, but you are wrong.....Werner is first rate and going thru a major heath problem rightnow. Not in the office everyday. Out side of that, sorry, but you are still wrong with your feelings that you had some kind of a deal. May that works in the coin trade, but not is the auto trade. You need something in writting to hold a car for a week. One day maybe, but not a week. Just my opinion

 

Serious Interest = cash deposit.

Anything less, leaves the car 'in play'. That's just "the rules".

I have purchased Ferraris from across the country, and to "hold" a car you send $5 or $10K out first.

I've had one instance, where my schedule prevented personal inspection and I had the send the ENTIRE AMOUNT, subject to refund...."if I didn't like it."

*plug for Micheal Wilhoit here....nice guy*

You can't expect them to carry the car forever while you make your plans.

Good Ferraris litter the marketplace, right now, pack some Benjamins into a Halliburton Zero, and hit the road!!

Still have the 512BBLM, bill noon???

 

If you didn't have a deposit down on the car then what they did was completely justified.


Imagine, if everyone held cars because people were coming to see it or sending someone to look at it for them... most cars would be stuck in pending.

Bottom line is deposits/money is what talks. Reservations and plans unfortunately do not. If it was so important and this was the car you had to have you should have placed a deposit on the car.

Buyers these days are few and far between. Sellers need to take the money when it is real and in front of them.

This is no fault of Miller motorcars.

The only slight bit of blame on them is the sales person could have told you that the car will be available until you put a deposit on it. Planning to go see the car does not constitute enough of commitment to hold the vehicle.

 

Ditto.

 

how does this qualify you as a buyer?

 

+1

 

Not if you didn't buy the option. Which is what the deposit is.

 

The first part of the story where he states another salesman already took a deposit on the car is what I was refering too.

 

I am with Ken on this one from what he has said.
I am in business to, and recently had a potential client in Spain who wanted to look at a property i was selling. When they told me they where coming over to the UK and had booked the flights, without asking ,i took the home off the market and reserved it until they came to look at it, in the end they did not take it, but so what i lost 2 weeks of possible interest.

I would have felt like s+++ if i would have taken a deposit on it before they came, after they had made all the arrangements. I think Ken showed enough intent, for Millers to have held the car for him, after all this was a high ticket item by most peoples standards.

As for the old " the other sales person did not know" that's one of the oldest excuses in the book, Millers must be a massive operation if all the sales people did not know what was going on!
In Law you a stuffed Ken, but the principles on how Millers operate must be called into question. This is based on what Ken has said but it would be good to hear the other side?

Grant Miller
****, i could be related, scrub what i just said!

 

+1,000,000,000,000........infinity!!

Just cause you have a 330 GTC doesn't mean anything as I stated before. Maybe you are showing the car for someone, maybe you inherited the car from someone...etc. If you diden't offer to show your bank account, then how does Werner know you can afford it and are the real deal. If you signed a check and put out a deposit with refund stipulations, then he WOULD HAVE KNOWN FOR SURE you are for real.

Mike