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Project-Scuderia

Discussion in '360/430' started by RBM, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2009
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    #1 RBM, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Step 1 of the project is to establish the baseline for the vehicle.

    2009 Ferrari F430 Scuderia
    US Carbon Package
    Radio w/iPod+Nav
    Alcantara dash + center console
    All fluids topped off (full fuel tank, full w/w reservoir)
    Tool kit and air compressor secured in trunk
    All books and loose accessories removed
    Factory suspension settings

    Vehicle weights measured with Intercomp Corner Scales, +/-1 lb accuracy

    1. Vehicle without driver

    Left Front Right Front
    674 lb* 639 lb

    Left Rear Right Rear
    877 lb 935 lb*

    *Cross Balance: 1609 lb, 51.5%
    Total Weight: 3125 lb

    2. Vehicle with driver (206 lb)

    Left Front Right Front
    750 lb* 676 lb

    Left Rear Right Rear
    948 lb 957 lb*

    *Cross Balance: 1707 lb, 51.2%
    Total Weight: 3331 lb

    I noted that the balance actually improved with the addition of the driver (0.3%). The weight distribution across the rear axle was near-perfect (9 lb delta). The anti-roll bars were still connected, and the drop-links are not adjustable. Adjustable drop-links will have to be installed in order to corner balance the car and relieve the pre-load, but a perfect 50.0% cross balance should be easily achievable.
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  2. dareupgang

    dareupgang Rookie

    Mar 4, 2010
    16
    Very interesting start, makes it more intriguing, I like your preciseness already
     
  3. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior
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    #3 RBM, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Individual stock wheels and tires were weighed using a Citizen 30kg scale with +/- 20g accuracy.

    Left Front Right Front
    20.210 kg 20.095 kg (115g delta L to R)

    Left Rear Right Rear
    23.990 kg 24.105 kg (115g delta L to R)

    Weights include wheel, tire, TPMS, balance weights, center cap.

    Front - OEM Speedline wheel, 8"x19"; Pirelli Corsa 235/35R19 (factory tire spec - 9.524 kg)

    Rear - OEM Speedline wheel, 10"x19"; Pirelli Corsa 285/35R19 (factory tire spec - 12.245 kg)
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  4. NWaterfall

    NWaterfall Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2009
    554
    The Track
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    Waterfall
    Are you sure you aren't related to F430GT??? :D
     
  5. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,060
    Santa Monica, CA
    #5 ChipG, Nov 8, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
    I really like projects like this! Should you also do a baseline with fuel level at 50%? this way you will know the over and under % better or are you going to calculate by subtracting 6.073 lb/US gal (7.29 lb/imp gal) weight as the car burns it off? 75lbs + - close to the rear differential might make more of a % weight distribution impact than thought???? I had typed behind the differential but I forgot if the gas tank is in front of the dif or behind it.

    Please, anything for a 1/10th :)
     
  6. Kouki Monster

    Kouki Monster Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
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    AJ
    sweet, another trev in the making! haha
     
  7. F430addict

    F430addict F1 Rookie

    Sep 17, 2010
    4,307
    WOW! MOTHER OF ALL PRECISIONS!
     
  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #8 360trev, Nov 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Good luck with the project!

    I saw you recently have been discussing this element about the drop links being non adjustable on the road cars. I too need a set of adjustable drop links for the same reasons.

    For comparison here are the pictures of the Challenge drop links compared to the road car ones. May also be worth looking at the Whiteline options since they are probably a better option once someone measures theirs up and finds the right ones.

    Please keep us informed with regular updates!
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  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    lol ;)
     
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  10. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,153
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    Aldous Voice
    As it happens I've been thinking about making my own adjustable drop links too! So far I think it's doable with a one male and one female spherical ends, a lock nut and a machine spacer to fit the bolt through the ends and into the shock/ARB.

    The trouble is I've got no idea which ends are suitable. I was going to progress with the idea once I've stripped my suspension down this winter.
     
  11. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior
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    #11 RBM, Nov 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wheels, tires, and components were weighed with the 30 kg scale, +/-20g.

    Front BBS FI Wheel , 8.75”x19”
    (factory spec = 7.937 kg)
    RF = 7.835 kg
    LF = 7.755 kg

    Rear BBS FI Wheel , 11.25”x19”
    (factory spec = 9.206 kg)
    RR = 9.285 kg
    LR = 9.190 kg

    * Actual wheel weights are very close to advertised factory spec.

    Front Bridgestone Potenza RE-11, 255/35R19
    (factory spec = 12.698 kg)
    RF = 12.825 kg
    LF = 12.920 kg

    Rear Bridgestone Potenza RE-11, 305/30R19
    (factory spec = 14.512 kg)
    RR = 14.665 kg
    LR = 14.825 kg

    * Actual tire weights are not as close to the advertised factory spec. I suspect the factory rounds down to the nearest pound. Also, tire manufacturing has fewer process controls. The Bridgestones are significantly heavier than the stock Pirellis, in part because of the increased width (20mm on each tire).

    For tire mounting, I matched up the heaviest wheel with the lightest tire to improve the L/R balance of the car.

    Beru TPMS transmitter = 55 g each (all 4 were identical in weight)

    Wheel weights (after computer balance)
    RF = 280 g
    LF = 415 g
    RR = 445 g
    LR = 390 g

    * Most of the balance weights were placed opposite the valve stem to counteract the mass of the TPMS, although the weights were significantly heavier.

    TOTAL WEIGHT
    (wheels & tires weight-matched, TPMS, balance weights, no center caps)
    RF = 20.995 kg (stock RF=20.085kg, +910g)
    LF = 21.145 kg (stock LF=20.210kg, +935g)
    RR = 24.450 kg (stock RR=24.105kg, +345g)
    LR = 24.460 kg (stock LR=23.990kg, +470g)

    The end result was a weight gain of 2.660 kg (5.9 lbs) by switching to the track wheels. Even though the BBS FI wheels are lighter than stock, the gain is offset by the heavier, wider tires.
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  12. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Great posts, very informative!

    Q. Do you know the ET (offsets) for the Front & Rear BBS FI rims? They should be stamped on the rim itself.
     
  13. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior
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    #13 RBM, Nov 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The wheels are impressively light for their size. I did note that I can flex the barrels in my hands because they are very thin. It's clear that they rely on air pressure to increase stiffness. There's a good possibility the wheels would be damaged if the tire lost all pressure and the car was still moving. It will be prudent to heed the TPMS warnings when using these wheels.

    Out of curiosity, I compared these wheels to a set of Dymags, which have carbon fiber barrels and Aluminum-Magnesium alloy forged centers. The Dymags are lighter (but smaller), but the barrels (which are aircraft-grade construction) are significantly stiffer, and I have driven on them with completely flat tires, and experienced no wheel damage.

    FRONT
    Dymag 8.5"x18" = 7.280 kg
    BBS FI 8.75”x19” = 7.937 kg

    REAR
    Dymag 11"x18" = 8.440 kg
    BBS FI 11.25”x19” = 9.206 kg
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  14. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    I am currently half way through the same project on my Scuderia. I will post a similar thread when it's all finished.
    My car was ordered without any of the luxury items that add weight; but it had none of the exterior carbon fibre panels. The car is weighed on race scales at the completion of each modification. It is weighed with full tanks and washer bottle and tools and inflation bottle on board. Weight is then corrected for petrol (67.545 kg) and washer fluid (6.5kg) to get the dry weight. The base line on my car was 1355kg dry.
    Fitting all the optional carbon fibre exterior panels and changing to a gel battery dropped the weight to 1337kg. With the BBS FI wheels and Pirelli Tropheo tyres the weight dropped to 1331 kg. It's interesting that your road tyres appear to be so much heavier, as my Tropheo's are the same size.
    Next up is the full Capristo exhaust system with expected savings of 23kg. Then light weight front and rear carbon fibre bumpers. The standard bumpers are seriously heavy. I picked the front one up and was horrified- something like 25kg estimated. I gather it's inbuilt crash structures that make them so heavy. I will be moulding the original bumpers and making light weight carbon fibre replicas at estimated 6kg weight each. Down side is they are a bit fragile, so "touch parking" on the street will fracture them.
    Last mod will be a Braille lithium battery which will save about 15kg or so.

    Final target weight is circa 1260-1270kg with a handy increase in power and torque and a nicer exhaust note. Best bit is the car hasn't been gutted to achieve it, and it will look standard with the exception of the BBS FI wheels.
     
  15. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Quote, " Weight is then corrected for petrol (67.545 kg) and washer fluid (6.5kg) to get the dry weight. "

    Can you elaborate on your definition of dry weight? I was under the impression 'dry weight' excluded ALL fluids required to drive the car. And actually kerb weight isn't usually a full tank either, its a half filled tank no?

    On the Scud we have the following fluids;

    10.0 liters (22.0 lb) of Engine oil
    3.5 liters (7.71 lb) of Gearbox and differential oil
    1.0 liters (2.20 lb) of F1 transmission oil
    2.0 liters (4.40 lb) of Hydraulic steering system & steering box
    1.0 liters (2.20 lb) of Air con compressor gases
    17.5 liters (38.5 lb) of Engine coolant
    1.3 liters (2.86 lb) of Brake fluid
    6.5 liters (14.30 lb) of Window washer and xenon headlight cleaner mixture
    ---
    42.8 liters (94.16 lb)
    ---
    And then fuel...

    95 liters (209 lb) Full fuel tank capacity of which 20 liters is the reserve
     
  16. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    RBM,

    I have the F430 Challenge drop links in my car, be sure to get all the pieces, as they are sold by Ferrari in little pieces. They are monoball drop links, don't confuse front and rear drop links, front ones are shorter. Much stiffer than stock drop links, and adjustable, but there is no need to adjust them.

    Fix the cross weight with the spring perches.

    I actually run 255/295 RE-11 on the stock wheels. The RE-11 is a heavy tire, but it has better dry grip than the stock Corsa System, RE-11 lasts a lot longer, and they are more affordable. Be aware that RE-11 are rated at 168mph, so they cannot sustain speeds higher than this for a constant time. I think I messed up my RE-11 at Daytona 3 weeks ago, I ran 2 sessions with them and they developed a lot of vibration, but I was exceeding their speed rating, plus the rear ones have been in the car for almost 2 years. Once the vibration became a little noticeable, I switched to my track wheels and MPSC tires. I will re-balance the RE-11 in the next few days and check if the tires are ok or not and post more info.



    Your car weight is on the spot. I use 6.25 lbs/gallon for fuel weight, as that's what I have verified on the scales using a fuel contained empty, then full. The fuel tank in the Scuderia carries around 155 lbs.
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    #17 Napolis, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #18 360trev, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lol. Funny!

    Or you could end up with a new Stratos too ;)

    I've just started researching and learning how to build full on cf moulds myself. Already done various pieces D-I-Y. I'm confident I can get very close to pro results with more work and double sided mouldings under pressure and vacuum bagging.

    After your fantastic project I may decide to try new bodywork myself in future... ;) Already looking at some serious suspension from a 430 GT3 which I'd like to mount pushrod style with rockers, Enzo style. ;)
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  19. F430addict

    F430addict F1 Rookie

    Sep 17, 2010
    4,307
    Ok. This is some serious **** going on down here.
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    We got down to a 7:15 in the wet/traffic/and construction slowed on the Ring with only 460HP so you guys should be able to beat that with your unrestricted HP.
     
  21. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
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    Greg
    Ohhhhh! The glove has been thrown down! :D
     
  22. chris360hawks

    chris360hawks Formula Junior

    May 29, 2007
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    San Antonio, Texas
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    Very cool project. Saw this Scud on campus last month for the little A&M car show...gorgeous car.
     
  23. 430 scuderia

    430 scuderia Guest

    Jun 10, 2008
    790
    +10000 :-D
     
  24. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    this is going to be THE thread of the next 12 months
     
  25. euro_king

    euro_king Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2009
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    San Jose, Jakarta
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    word
     

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