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Purchasing new Ferrari's and the waiting list..

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by pdiack, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. pdiack

    pdiack Karting

    Nov 19, 2003
    236
    I was at my local dealer this weekend and was informed that a waiting list is present for all models - all currently over 3 years. The sales guy told me that his suggested approach is to purchase a used car and at the same time put your name on the "list" for a car 3 years down the road.

    Question for all of you is - how many of you actually wait the 3+ years on a list for your car? Is the only advantage to the wait is you pay MSRP or after being on the list are you in some sort of "club" where you get preferential treatment when looking to acquire future Ferrari's - i.e. next time around - you only wait 6 months?

    Just trying to figure out the game - Thanks in advance..
     
  2. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371

    I assume you are talking about 360 coupe or spyder.
     
  3. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    I wouldn't wait 3 years. Especially when the model is changing, and the dealer won't tell you if your deposit will transfer over. Some people get a certain preference, and even if they don't have a deposit, they'll get in line in front of you. There is quite a bit of selling to friends, then flipping the car at a price over MSRP going on, which allows this system to go on. Since the 05 is proabably a 420 that looks a little like the Enzo, I'd wait until announced, then get in line. If you don't have a Ferrari then I'd buy what you want now.

    Art
     
  4. f355

    f355 Karting

    Oct 5, 2002
    116
    I don't buy that. There are cars available for spring. I wouldn't wait 3 years. Used cars is where they make their $$$.
     
  5. pdiack

    pdiack Karting

    Nov 19, 2003
    236
    Yes, looking at the 360 - but I was told the list was almost as long for a 575 which seems hard to believe. So, it sounds like the system is "friends" get 1st shot - often resell for a profit - and then us enthusiasts buy them at markup? Of course, this assumes the need for a current model year car.
     
  6. rscholl

    rscholl Formula Junior

    Dec 4, 2003
    296
    Houston,TX
    Speaking with Ferrari of Houston a couple of weeks ago they were under the impression that a 360 replacement is quite a long way off. The 360 is just selling too well. But I didn't get any specific information. They are no longer accepting names to the list for the 360 (at least for the 6-speed which is what I want). I don't think I can wait much longer. I'll probably have to go the pre-owned route.
     
  7. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    Pdiack,

    are you looking for a coupe or a spyder?
     
  8. pdiack

    pdiack Karting

    Nov 19, 2003
    236
    Spider..
     
  9. Steve Darrah

    Steve Darrah Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    35
    Midlothian, Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stephen C. Darrah
    In November 2000, I went on the list for the 360 Spyder and the 550 at Ferrari of Washington. I was told at the time that the waiting period for the 360 was approx. 4 years and the 550 1.5 years. My 550 was delivered in May '01 and I was required to make a deposit several months later to retain my place on the 360 Spyder list.Late last year,when checking on where I was on the list, I was informed that due to an uexpected demand for the 6 speed Spyders vs. the F1s over the previous year, the 6 speeds would take 3-4 months longer to come in than the F1 versions.As of a couple of days ago, I was told that my 360 6 speed Spyder would come in around the end of 2004.The expectation is that the new 360 will also be available at the same time and those of us on the 360 list could go on the "new" 360 list if we choose when decision time arrives.The 550 was my first Ferrari and my sense is that FoW has been pretty straight forward with maintaing the integrity of their 360 list. Also, the new 360, I am told, will be based on a number of the Enzo improvements, have some body style changes, and have a "significantly" bigger engine.
     
  10. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    To sort of answer the initial question..............I had clients wait 4 years.......yes !! 4 years for the new SL500. My friend at MB just delivered one I ordered 22 months ago for a client of mine. They currently are still 24 months out with the orders.

    So..............I imagine they easily wait 3 years for a Ferrari too.
     
  11. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 22, 2002
    3,233
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    The problem with the list is that all the people who take delivery that never go on a list. it pisses other people off but it is a part of the Ferrari as well as other marques world. Its all about who you know or being in the right place at the right time. I got one of the first G500's in the US when at the time there was a long wait and I happened to be at the dealership when the first one came in. For some reason the number one guy on the list wasn't able to take it and they ended up selling it to me. I would think that it would go to the next person on the list that ordered silver/black but according to them(and I wasn't about to argue) each person gets a slot and if someone falls out the next in line doesn't bump up. Also, people willing to pay any price shake things up once again. I am currently on a "list" for the new Bentley GT and am wondering how that will go.The biggest problem I see with the 360 spider list is how they will handle the people that are on the list when the replacement comes. Who the hell wants to pay 190k for a car to get the outgoing model? I have heard both stories about being able to transfer to the new list and not being able. I would get that clarified in writing if I was waiting on the 360 list.
     
  12. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I went on the list for a 360 in Oct of 2000. I bought a used Euro 360 in the meantime, as I was too impatient to wait; I chose Euro, because I could not bring myself to pay way over MSRP, and felt good enough about 360 reliability to skip the warranty.

    When they announced the Stradale, I immediately called to have my name switched from the 360 list to the Stradale list. I would like to think that my years of being on the 360 list contributed to my placement on the Stradale list... but it could also just be that I called so immediately after the announcement of the Stradale. You never really know the inner workings of "the list" (unless your the keeper of the list).

    So, when my car is delivered in March (fingers crossed), I will have been on the list for 3.5 years. And given the popularity of the Modena and the Stradale are both much less than for the 360 Spider, a four-year wait for the Spider is not surprising.

    As has already been said, I wouldn't listen to rumors of a Enzo-like replacement to the 360... far more likely just a continued evolution of the car. And I would expect a lot of organized list shuffling when the new model is *announced*... some will be willing to take another year or so delay to get the newest model... some will prefer to get bumped up into the gap left by those and take a 360 at the end of its model run rather than being 2 years down the new model list... there's plenty of demand that a new model will not dry up demand for the old model.

    Soooo... if you want one now, buy used. If you want to get a brand new one, put yourself on the list... the sooner the better. Do NOT wait until the new model is announced... the list will be a good 2 years long before the model is even announced (effectively).

    If you want to be a list hopper, start spending ungodly sums of money... buy an Enzo and a 360 Challenge that you have them maintain as you run it in races with others willing to bang up 360s... buy a new 575 and trade in your old every time they get a new color... and so on...
     
  13. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    If you want a coupe 6 speed, the wait is probably longer than the model run, since the new car is coming in 2004 (a 05 model). I thought my ordered car had a build date of October, November, with a delivery of Dec/Jan. I've been told that the earliest build date is Feb/March. Looks like I'm going to get a used 360 with low miles, and maybe get on the list for the replacement.

    Art
     
  14. MikeS

    MikeS Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
    106
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Michael Sutka
    I placed a deposit on a 360 coupe in June '01, was told a 2-3 year wait. I just ordered the 360 for a March build, so nearly 3 years to delivery. The slot was for an F1, which I chose after a long drive, a lot of assistance from this board. A 6 speed wait is indefinite. Not sure about the new '05 but in discussions with the dealer, a realistic deliverable date today is 18 months, if not longer, assuming you don't get bumped by long time clients.
     
  15. pdiack

    pdiack Karting

    Nov 19, 2003
    236
    Thanks for the advice guys - much appreciated.
     
  16. Hubert888

    Hubert888 F1 Veteran
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    May 14, 2003
    5,377
    Manhattan & LA
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    Hubert
    I heard from many of my friends who also own Ferraris that at some dealerships, you can just pay the manager $10k CASH and he will give you the next delivery of their 360. You might want to try it out.
     
  17. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 22, 2002
    3,233
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
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    Jeff

    I wouldn't doubt that for a minute! What was the situation with the guy that started looking for a Stradale about two weeks ago and has already had it now for a week? Another example of faulty list.I think if you are willing to do the legwork and be proactive in calling everyone and there brother in Ferrari-Land you don't need no stinkin list! A little grease money wouldn't hurt either.
     
  18. TimF40

    TimF40 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,031
    Seattle/Bay Area/NYC
    Full Name:
    Tim
    24 months for a new SL500? In Bellevue, WA, they have immediate slots for March04 delivery - as of last week.
     
  19. TimF40

    TimF40 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,031
    Seattle/Bay Area/NYC
    Full Name:
    Tim
    And on a new 6 speed, if you're not to opposed to paying over MSRP a little, you can pick one up (delivery miles only) for around $10k over MSRP. Given the price of the car anyway, how much is it worth to you to skip the 2-3 year waiting list and drive the brand new 6 speed coupe this weekend? My 2 cents.
     
  20. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,391
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    A
    SL's are available. The MB dealer in Chandler AZ has a SL600 on the floor. I placed an order in July for an '04 SL55 and picked it up Nov 30.
     
  21. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,436
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman
    You mentioned that the new car is coming in 2004 as a 2005 model...are you sure? Too date it has only been a rumor that the replacement car will be available that soon some believe the car will car out in late 2005 as a 2006.
     
  22. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    5,787
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Here in AZ 'the list' is a magic document written in pencil and kept hidden in a desk.

    Somehow if some cash, or a GP watch, or other valuable bauble ends up in the list keepers hand....you magically get to pick your colors and your car is delivered.

    I think that there is some pretty cheesy stuff going on in the Fcar dealerships (not all...but some).

    I got on the list at our local MB dealer for an SL55 and there were no games....my number came up, I ordered my car and it came...end of story.
     
  23. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    12,754
    San Clemente
    Full Name:
    Anthony Tonokaboni
    I ordered my 360 Spider in 00 and got in July of 2003. I had too fight nail and tooth to get it then. After a week with the car I got an offer I could not refuse, my local dealer found out and told me if I did not sell it through them I could no longer do business through them. Considering they made enough profit on a $200K car I told them to bite me and sold the car to who I wanted to sell it too. I would rather do business with who I want then deal with their B$. I was offered a 360 Coupe 6 speed prior to my car at MSRP though I turned it down. FNA is lucky that they can have a waiting list. As soon as the Gallardo and some other cars come out, this waiting list will no longer be. By the way their arrogant attidute to us is B$, we are the customers and we can do what we want with our cars. When you buy a house does the Selling Agent force you to Sell it through them again?
     
  24. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Actually, assuming their motive here is to prevent F-car speculation (buying just to flip the cars and make a profit), then I applaud your dealer and salute them when they refuse to ever again sell you a car. Phttt!! :p

    In a world with 3- and 4-year waiting lists, F-car dealers could be charging exhorbitant prices and making huge profits on the cars. But they don't... they respect the true Ferrari enthusiasts enough to sell them the cars at MSRP. But then, in that situation, people with money and no love for the cars will come along, get on the list, buy the car, and then sell it to the true Ferrari lovers at those ridiculous prices. Then the F-car dealers' noble efforts to keep prices at MSRP are doing nothing but rewarding speculators with big profits. As a Ferrari nut, I'd much rather my money go to the Fcar dealer than to some opportunistic jerk playing the system.

    So, how does the Fcar dealer only sell to true Ferrari fans? How do they avoid speculators? They either sell only to people they know (eliminating all new Fcar fans), OR they at least make sure each speculator can only profit once in their lifetime. Once known as a speculator, they are black-balled forever. I salute the dealers that enforce that and continue to try to get the Ferraris into enthusiasts' hands at MSRP.

    You argue you should be able to sell to who you want for the $$ you want... and I would agree *if* you paid market price for the car (that is, you paid the dealer the inflated price)... but if the dealer sold you the car under market (at MSRP) with the agreement that you would not flip it (that you would sell it through them), then that is part of the agreement with them. You knew when you bought it from them that, if you want that price, then you must sell it through them. You broke that agreement... and as a result, you deserve to be black-balled.
     
  25. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 22, 2002
    3,233
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Full Name:
    Jeff

    Are you serious with this? The only reason they want you to sell your car back through them is to take a part in the bending over of the guy who is paying way over sticker. What does this have to do with insuring each Ferrari gets a noble and deservig owner? You've got to be kidding with that.
     

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