QA1 Front shocks with NO A-arm modification!

Discussion in '308/328' started by Birdman, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Hi Everyone,
    You may recall that a few months ago I was asking about 308 front shock solutions using aftermarket (non-Koni) adjustable shocks that would drop in place without modification to the A-arms. Many people have liked the QA1 shocks on the 308. The rears pop right in "plug and play" but the fronts, due to a difference in design, often require a small amount of grinding of the upper A arms to get the QA1 to fit and not hit the A arms.

    Well, I'm having none of that.

    It's not that I am afraid to take a grinder to the car....but that I just powdercoated my suspension a couple years ago and I can't stand to mess up the beautiful job Verell and I did. Besides, grinding seems like such an ugly solution to the problem and I like elegant solutions.

    So.......

    The great engineering minds of Verell and Birdman ;) are once again working on the issue. We are working on a "plug and play" QA1 solution for the front suspension that requires no mods. It's simple, it's elegant, it's not expensive. It's also not finished, so you'll have to bear with me for a few months. But I'll post pics once we have the details worked out. Stand by!

    (I just love to build a little suspense!)

    Birdman
     
  2. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,845
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    Tease!! You and Paris Hilton. Hmmmf. Never thought I'd see the day when he'd stoop to rank promotionalism. LOL

    When you get some pics of what's in the works, how about posting them? Or do you want to patent the idea first? Good luck with the project; it's great to see folks continuing to find ways to improve these great cars so we can enjoy driving the heck out of them, not just having them sit in a car museum.

    Regards,
    Steve
     
  3. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    No, no patenting. This will likely use all stock parts available from QA1. There may be one small custom piece necessary (maybe) and if so, Verell will include it in his 308 QA1 bushing kit that he already manufactures for a reasonable surcharge. All I want to get out of this is a set of shocks on my car without cutting the A arms!

    Anyway, I do like a little suspense, and there will be plenty of pics. ;)

    Birdman

    P.S. I know I'm in the minority, but I think Paris Hilton is hot.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    68,701
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    She's just misunderstood....she's in the wrong crowd to find a REAL man......

    I saw her at the Superbowl.......looked lost and lonely.....

    Will stay tuned on the QA1s....I like those Euro shocks. cool!.....$$$$$
     
  5. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    4,647
    18 mi from the surf.
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    #5 350HPMondial, Jan 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    68,701
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    LOL! Thanks, and if she would date me, true to form ..she'd gain 15 pounds!!
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,845
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    If she gained it in the right places, bilaterally, that would not be a problem. So when you start dating her, can I have the babe with the perfect cheeks sticking out of the red 308 in that other thread???? Please??????
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    68,701
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Thank John Vallandingham of Pinnacle Motorsports for that one!!!

    Local Hooter's talent.........

    Lady Valeria teaches Sunday School, so won't let those type images out...:rolleyes:
     
  10. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie
    Project Master Owner

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,885
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Chris "Pizzaman"
    Wait a minute.

    Does the Mrs. know about you getting front shocks too?? I thought you said she put her foot down on "me spending to much $$ on the 308" :D

     
  11. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Hey man, why do you think I bought them from a seller that takes paypal??? What do you think I do with my fuseblock fund???? I buy parts!!! (off the wife's radar..... :D)

    Birdman
     
  12. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    And man that pic of Paris is SMOKIN!

    Birdman
     
  13. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie
    Project Master Owner

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,885
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Chris "Pizzaman"
    Yes, she is a very sweet, church going girl. :)
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    #13 Birdman, Jan 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, I'll post a few teasters to get us started. The problem with the QA1 in the front of the car is that the front A arms interfere not only with the upper spring perch, but the ridge on the shock eye which is the "perch for the perch," if you will.

    The picture below shows how the OEM Koni shock has a very thin rod that connects the shock to the eye, in order to get around the suspension A arm. The QA1 (with no spring) next to it shows how even though the QA1 mounting eye is diminutive compared to the Koni, the flared part that connects the eye to the piston (and grabs the spring perch) is large.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    #14 Birdman, Jan 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    4,647
    18 mi from the surf.
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    Hey Bird,

    Your bushings look a little worn. Are you going to be replacing those too....?
     
  18. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    The solution to this started before I put the QA1 in the car and was thinking that only the spring perch was in the way. In the QA1 catalog, they have an extender to screw between the shock eye and the top of the piston rod. The extender would move the spring perch down far enough to get it out of the way of the A arm.

    The only problem was the extender was from a different line of the QA1 products, so while it would screw into this shock nicely, it was the wrong size to hold the spring perch! Damn! There's always a catch.

    We looked into buying a spring perch from the other line of shocks to mount on this extender, but there are two problems with this.

    1. It is conical shaped and will require a shorter spring, 9" instead of 10". This isn't so bad, but not optimum.

    2. They will not sell the perch by itself. You have to buy a whole coil-over kit at $40+ per shock just to get the perch.

    Seemed like an awkward solution, but it would probably work in a pinch. But I thought we could do better.

    We had two new approaches from there.

    1. Use the QA1 extender from the other line of shocks, but machine our own adapter to put the proper spring perch on it.

    2. Machine our own extender that looks like the one QA1 makes, but machine it to accept the right perch.

    The first idea is easier and cheaper. But I am not crazy about adding an adapter AND and extender. It just seems like a lot of junk all piled up on there. However, this idea is the most cost effective. The QA1 extender is only about $10 per shock, and the adapters could be made for about the same price. So, for $40, the fronts will fit. Almost. (Keep reading.)

    The second idea is workable, but uses a larger custom made piece. We got some pricing from a machine shop (Chris Marsh here on fchat) and it is only a tad more expensive to do it with one custom made part. I like this idea better because it is simpler and in my opinion, stronger.

    But BOTH ideas have an "issue." They both require that the lip on the shock eye as seen in the above pictures be machined off. No biggie for me, I have a lathe. But it means if someone on Fchat wanted this kit to do QA1 shocks on his car, he would either have to bring the shock eyes to a machine shop, send them to Verell to be machined, or machine them himself. Kind of a pain.

    So I am exploring the possibility of simply machining an entirely new shock eye for the top of the shock, an inch longer than stock to make the spring clear the A arm, and with no spring perch ridge in the way of the A-arm. We will use 7075 aluminum (very strong, stronger than the 6061 used on these shocks) and it is a simple bolt on solution. The problem is that the new shock eyes in the very low volume we will produce them (due to very small demand) will probably put their price in the $100+ a set range. We'll see. I think that is a small concession to make to have a perfact drop-in solution for the QA1 in the front. (I only paid $375 for two shocks and two springs, so this isn't a very expensive upgrade anyway.)

    Now you might ask....what does this 1" extension to the shock length do to the suspension? Good question. The Koni is 15" long from mounting eye to mounting eye when fully extended to the stop. The QA1 that is closest to this size is 14" long when fully extended. You can install it like that. It just doesn't allow the suspension to droop as far when you lift the car up. No biggie. Well guess what? Add the 1" extension to the QA1 and it's now EXACTLY the same size as the Koni. Nice. (I planned it that way! ;))

    Stand by for updates. We machine the prototypes next week when my big chunk of 7075 gets here.

    Birdman
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    I knew someone would bust me on that!!

    At some point. When I did the rears, which looked 10 times worse, they turned out to be not anywhere near as bad as they looked. So I decided to put off the fronts for a couple years until I got around to the shocks. We'll see how motivated I am this winter. I'm starting to become a big believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!" Right now the suspension is an issue. My springs are saggy, the car rides low, which looks good, but it bottoms out a lot and is way too bouncy. The rear shocks clunk. The shocks suck, the springs suck. They gotta go. I want adjustables so I can set my ride height where it is now, but I want stiffer springs and more damping to keep the car from bottoming out on anthills. I'm tired of cringing every time I have to drive over a change in the pavement surface, wondering if my spoiler will touch down!!

    Birdman
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    #18 Birdman, Jan 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Hey Edwardo, just to keep this thread from getting too serious, got any more hot pics of Ms. Hilton? That picture is awesome!!
     
  22. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    4,647
    18 mi from the surf.
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    #20 350HPMondial, Jan 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    4,647
    18 mi from the surf.
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    #21 350HPMondial, Jan 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Is that night image even her??? If so, I need the uncensored version!!
     
  25. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    I need to make one thing clear here....this is a thread documenting the development of a means to non-invasively put QA1 shocks on the front of *my* car, and at the same time an excuse to post pictures of Paris Hilton. I am using Verell's already developed bushing kit which I purchased from him. Verell may or may not decide to build and market the additional part we are developing for the front shocks to make them fit. I have had a few PMs asking about my "kit" and if it's better than verell's kit. I am USING Verell's kit, and making one additional piece for each front shock. If you are thinking about QA1s on your car, you need bushings for the 308. To my knowledge, Verell is the only guy making them. Not me!

    Verell is concerned about the liability of marketing a critical suspension component, in our litigious society. (The piece we are making is stronger than the one that comes on the shocks from QA1, but that is irrelevant in liability!) So **IF** Verell decides to market this piece, it will be available from him as an additional part for his bushings kit. I have no idea what final pricing might be, obviously. If he decides that he does not want to build these parts, you can use this thread as a roadmap to make your own parts! (If you are really nice, I might even post the plans for the parts with dimensions FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!)

    FINE PRINT:
    This thread is for your entertainment only, not responsible for what you may do with this information!!!! :D

    Birdman
     
  26. RVIDRCI

    RVIDRCI Formula 3

    Dec 1, 2005
    1,565
    Long Beach / Phoenix
    Full Name:
    Luigi
    How did Paris Hilton hi-jack a shock absorber thread ?? You guys might want to dial up the damping on your hot psychoslut richchick obsession. JK
    (now, if you had provacative pictures of Ashley Judd or Salma Hayek !!!)

    BTW- just put me on the list for the QA1 shock mod kit.

    -Luigi

    Edit: Birdman, not to worry. I am in touch (sort of ) with Verell RE: this. I think your non-invasive attitude is THE attitude to have. If a short run is in order with Verell I just hoped I could be on the list, (and ready to sign a liability waiver).
     
  27. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,682
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    Lou, no offense, but please read the previous post. At this moment, other than Verell's bushing kit, there is no kit. If there is a kit, it will be Verell's existing bushing kit plus another piece that will cost extra, but there is no guarantee it will be available as a kit.

    Birdman
     

Share This Page