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QA1 Front shocks with NO A-arm modification!

Discussion in '308/328' started by Birdman, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    SDakota
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    Rico
    OK, I sent you an order for the bushings, and then put me down on the group list for the new mounting eyes (agreed only 2 needed). Thanks again!
     
  2. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #77 Birdman, Feb 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Looks like NO for sure. The 328 uses a 4-bolt upper shock mount like the Mondial. See attached diagram from the service manual.

    Birdman
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  3. Brunello

    Brunello Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2005
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    Al
    Birdman.

    Ok...well that saves me the trouble of pulling my wheels off. Thanks for the info anyway.
     
  4. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    Don't need the munchers, I glued a couple of 1-1/2" strips of velcro(tm) on the bottom of the back ends of my mats & on the floor about 5 years ago. Posts are somewhere in the old Fchat. Makes adj the carpet position a PITA, but they don't move once in place.

    I do think the munchers are a great solution tho. Easy to install & easy to adjust.
     
  5. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
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    Greg
    OK...just a few more for a min-buy:

    1) LouGaudio
    2) Perfusion
    3) Owens84QV
    4) chris03053
    5) Birdman (because he wants the clean 'production' version)
    6) 308tr6
     
  6. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #81 Verell, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Al,
    There's a good chance that your '86 can use the kit.
    It depends on your 328's S/N (see pix below):

    If your S/N is less than 76626 it should fit as it uses the 308 style front suspension(1st pic).

    From S/N 76626 & above the Mondial type front suspension was used(2nd pic). The give-away is that the Mondial suspension uses the convex style wheels. While it's often called the '328 ABS' suspension, there were some non-ABS cars that had the Mondial type suspension also.

    I believe the cut-in was sometime late in '87, but can't remember for sure.

    It looks like that the QA1 #SS110SDM stud top conversion kit would work with the Mondial type suspension as the A-arms don't appear to have the cross-brace that the 308 style A-arms do(see 2nd pic.)
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  7. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
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    Yes, I have one
    I'll jack my early 328 up tonight and take some photos, maybe we can improve your marketing range.
     
  8. Brunello

    Brunello Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2005
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    Vancouver, British C
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    Al
    Verell,

    My sin is 62027 so if your information is true, the new system should fit. Good news. Do you know how much the QA1 shock adjustment can potentially lower the car? This could be also be an advantage (or disadvantage) depending on how many speed bumps and ant hills I encounter!
     
  9. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
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    Don't worry, mine looks the same.:)
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    Went down & dug out my inventory tonight. Turns out I have 3 4-wheel sets & a 2-wheel set of the bushings.

    Well I should say I had that many as Tillman & 308tr6 just took 2 of them, so I still have 1 4-wheel set & 1 2-wheel set.

    Guess I better get another group buy going on these as well...
     
  11. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Verell and Tillman,

    Another twist!! Ferrari does it again....changes designs mid-stream and throws us a curve. The pics of Tillman's front suspension look identical to mine, so I'm going to give you a 98% chance that this suspension upgrade will work on the pre-'87 (or whatever year they switched suspension designs) 328. Who wants to be the first beta tester (Tillman???????)

    In those pics you can see clearly how Ferrari designed the suspension to require a very specific kind of upper shock eye to clear the A arm. Retarded!!! I'll bet they designed it, then said "Crap!" and had to call Koni and have them make a special shock. I would put money on it!

    My front shocks will be here today, so I will be putting the front suspension together for pics. One thing I will also do is weigh everything. I want to know how much weight I'm saving on this upgrade too. I'm going to guess it will be a pretty decent amount judging by how heavy the Koni pigs are.

    Birdman
     
  12. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    P.S. Tillman, that's how your car is supposed to look in the wheel wells. Only a girlie man that doesn't drive his car has clean suspension.
     
  13. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    You've been asleep... ;^)

    A couple of days ago I posted pix showing the two varients & gave the cut-over S/N.
     
  14. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    More than you would want to lower it!!
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    How I wish that were true. I have a 6 month old. Sleep? I don't think so.
     
  16. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    hey guys, just a note here. if you have the later style suspension like the mondial, a spherical bearing mount is what is needed. however CAUTION, it will NOT just mount and go. the upper oem mount is integral to the shock, you will need a new mount machined to match the type and make of shock you'll be using. I went thru this with the Mondial a couple times after snapping a few shocks -oops-.

    the later 4 bolt mount is flexible in a rotational axis and up/down due to bushing compression compared to the 1 of the earlier style, reference X,Y,Z,. it makes for a softer and 'sloppier' handling.
     
  17. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Scott,
    I haven't had a close look at the late 328/Mondial front suspension. Sounds like it's something to be carefully done AFTER we get the current design finished.

    Since you've been there, your experience will be invaluable.
     
  18. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    not a problem, the plane of rotational moment on the oem mount is midway between the washers. when designing a new mount this relationship needs to be accounted for as the range is between 10*~15* degrees! i Have soem old section cut calcs around here i can dig up...
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #95 Birdman, Feb 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, the front shocks showed up at last, and I assembled and installed them. Unlike the rears where you have enough thread on the lower spring perch to put the springs on the shocks and then just tighten down the perch, the fronts are JUST short enough with 10" springs that you need spring compressors to put them on. I used a cheapie pair from Harbor Freight. They really suck but they get the job done. You only need to compress them about 3/4 of an inch. I mounted the spring compressors up high on the spring so they wouldn't possibly damage the adjusting threads on the body of the shock.
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  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #96 Birdman, Feb 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #97 Birdman, Feb 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now the shock is installed, looking good! A close up of the top shows how the small indentation in the extended eye allows the A arm to go around it. This can be machined this way, or the eye can be narrower. I like doing it this way because the eye has more BEEF! There is sufficient space to get a feeler guage between them, so I know they are not touching. Of course, this is at full droop. Once the car is on the ground, the tolerance will be nowhere near this close.
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  22. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #98 Birdman, Feb 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last shot for now....the bottom of the shock showing how Verell's bushing kit is nice and snug in the mount, just like the OEM bushing for the Koni. VERY IMPORTANT. When you torque it down, you don't want to squash/bend/break any of the mounting forks.

    FYI, for those of you curious about weight, here is my incredibly accurate ;) bathroom scale breakdown:

    FRONT OEM Koni with stock spring and Ferrari rubber bushings: 11.5 pounds
    FRONT QA1 with 10" spring, extended shock eye and Verell bushings: 9 pounds

    REAR OEM Koni with stock spring and Ferrari rubber bushings: 12 pounds
    REAR QA1 with 10" spring, extended shock eye and Verell bushings: 9.5 pounds

    Not a big difference, but hey it takes a total of 10 pounds off the car, some of it unsprung weight.

    Now I just have to wait until spring so I can move the Mondial out from under the 308 and put it on the floor!

    Birdman
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  23. Brunello

    Brunello Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2005
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    Al
    Nice work Birdman.

    Must be driving you crazy to not know how your car looks sitting on the ground! I'm still sitting on the fence with regards to ordering Verrells parts and QA1's. I had my shocks checked and they appear to be fine (according to the mechanic) I'm not sure if I should just change them anyway or wait until one of them starts to leak.


    Al

    86 328 GTB
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Actually, with my old saggy springs, I already know what it will look like (low and mean). What I'm not looking forward to is repeatedly lifting and dropping the car to get the ride height set right. And then doing it again in a month when the springs settle.

    If there is nothing wrong with your shocks, don't change anything! I'm not doing this as an exercise in spending money. I just want to get rid of my clunking Konis.

    ///Birdman\\\
     

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