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QA1 Front shocks with NO A-arm modification!

Discussion in '308/328' started by Birdman, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I'm considering alternatives for best way to deal with the small interference with the eye that resulted in the clearance cuts.

    Birdman,
    I hope you measured how deep the clearance cut ended up. I need that dimension to finalize the design.

    Another design consideration is how much tolerence there is in the vertical position of the A-arm relative to the shock eye, as well as much that clearance dept can vary from unit to unit.

    BTW, did my shock extender arrive w/your shocks?
     
  2. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Ummm....<whistling and looking at ceiling....> well, lets just say it's not too late to do that I hope!

    Yep, got it right here.

    ///Birdman\\\
     
  3. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    oops, small typo. The rear QA1 is a 12" spring and no extended eye. I copied and pasted and forgot to change some words. Sorry. It should read:

    FRONT OEM Koni with stock spring and Ferrari rubber bushings: 11.5 pounds
    FRONT QA1 with 10" spring, extended shock eye and Verell bushings: 9 pounds

    REAR OEM Koni with stock spring and Ferrari rubber bushings: 12 pounds
    REAR QA1 with 12" spring, standard shock eye and Verell bushings: 9.5 pounds
     
  4. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

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    Any closer to a group buy?
     
  5. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #105 Verell, Feb 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm still waiting to hear from Birdman just how deep he had to make those clearance notches.

    Meanwhile, I'm working on the details of a couple of designs.

    Here's a rendering of the 1st one. While the neck is slimer than the prototype, it's the same OD as the eye extenders QA1 sells for their shocks. From looking at the earlier pictures, I think this neck is thinner than is needed for A-arm clearance, if so, I'll thicken the neck as much as possible. I believe this will be the best looking of the design approaches:
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  6. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    :) cool ! GD is sending me to Catia V4 school right now... i love it.

    these shocks will be a great asset, and a nice upgrade!
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Nice design!!
     
  8. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    Looks good, Verell. Curious what software you are using, if you don't mind sharing.
     
  9. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I'm using TurboCad Professional:
    http://www.imsisoft.com/prodinfo.asp?t=1&mcid=370&cid=

    AutoCAD was just way out of my price range. Even as a business expense, TurboCad wasn't cheap, but was the lowest priced package I could find that had everything I ever expect to need. There's evan a CAM add-on to generate CNC programs if I ever need to.

    One heck of a learning curve tho. First software I ever encountered where I couldn't get started, & I'm a professional software engineer! It's not that it's counter-intuitive, it's just enormously rich with commands and a lot of the settings interact.

    The manual & online help do a great job of telling you what each individual icon/command does, but there's no 'how to get started' tutorial type info that walks you thru the basics & gives you the big picture!!! I spent 2 or 3 evenings just getting more & more frustrated. Finally I ended up having to buy their 2D & 3D training CDs:

    http://www.imsisoft.com/prodinfo.asp?t=1&mcid=379
    http://www.imsisoft.com/prodinfo.asp?t=1&mcid=380

    I understand that the business model for AutoCAD and similar products is the same way, the documentation assumes you're buying training separately.Even with the very good training CDs, It took me about 3 or 4 days to get my first non-trivial design to come out the way I wanted it to. This one took about a couple of days, but mostly because it's been 6 mo. since I last used TurboCad & had to re-learn a lot. Having the flu didn't help either. Probably from scratch I could now do it in 2-3 hours.
     
  10. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    Yeah, CAD software and ease of use just seem to be diametrically opposed - the manuals are written by some non-human life form I'm sure. Looks like you have the basics pretty well handled though.

    I'm an engineer also, with a fair amount of AutoCad experience, but interested in a solid modeling package that I can take my .dwg or .dxf files directly into so not having to learn another whole drawing package. Haven't been to thrilled with AutoCad rendering software, though admittedly I am a bit out of date on the latest and greatest.

    I am interested in Solidworks, or ProE, but pricing structure is similar to Ferrari! Like the idea of the stuctural analysis, range of movement animations, etc., however. Learning curve probably very steep, but hoping some AutoCad background is helpful.

    Anyway, I am going to check out the stuff you are using, thanks for the info!
     
  11. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #111 smg2, Feb 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I Just picked up solid works 07, not cheap but very powerful. Avg cost is about 8k so buckle up!

    I've been using ACAD since 1989 so for me the 'alien' language is second nature. I think for new guys it's a steep curve, but when you've been in it from dang near the beginning it makes a bit of sense.

    Solid Works is very similar to ACAD and works well with it, it allowed me to import my dwg files directly and came with a add-on for CAD that allows the solid files to work in CAD as well. If your learned in Autocad then the step to Solid works is easy! I spent a week with it and would say I'm already 75% proficient with it and have had ZERO tutorial help.

    Here's a rendering from it, building the model and rendering took a couple hours. of course the 2D version started in CAD before I had this program.


    Verell, these programs would be overkill for you unless you sent the stuff out to machine shops who used the CNC programming for it. easycam works off the dxf files CAD generates and then from there it goes way up in costs for shops to use the programming for solid works.
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  12. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    This is the best part, the ability to analyze a part while building it is soooo helpful. the range of movement is a neat feature but to be honest unless it's really complex most engineers can intuitively see what is and isn't going to work. the learning curve is surprisingly short.

    the smart fasteners catalog, the smart hole programming is even better. everything is linked to each other, say I build a part that needs a threaded hole, I use the add-in that generates the hole and all the needed tooling info for it and then the smart fastener adds the hardware needed and will notify you of conflicts. change the hole the fastener updates. and it keeps a list of parts as well. getting the dependents to work with each other takes some getting used to but once mated it makes adjustments and design go fast!

    register on-line and check out the short clips of how the program works, that alone sold me. I've moved my entire CAD database of projects over to solidworks in 2wks time with probably adding 60% more useful info.

    I'm faster in CAD for the 2D but forcing myself to use the solidworks 2D for the relations.
     
  13. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    Wow, that plenum looks awesome! Thanks for the info on Solidworks, I have been on the website a few times trying to get a handle on it. I have had a very brief exposure to ProE, but Solidworks looks pretty impressive.

    I am going to try to get a demo or something if that is possible - don't know how I would ever justify the full package price however - hopefully there is a base package or something.

    So, I take it you are an engineer also (I'm actually a registered civil and chemical, so a bit out of my league on the mechanical stuff - but sufficiently a dork I suppose). Anyway, I suppose you are up on the FDM stuff also. I'm afraid to ask the cost of these - but the small office type machines look pretty intriguing.

    Anyway, thanks for the input!!

    PS - not meaning to hijack this thread....
     
  14. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    It can certainly import and export a wealth of CAD file formats(see below).

    There is a 'TurboCAD for AutoCAD Users' PDF book that might help you evaluate it:
    http://www.turbocad.com/prodinfo.asp?mcid=415

    The more I use TurboCAD, the more it's capabilities amaze me. When I was shopping, I looked at AutoCAD lite, & it only has 2D, no 3D modeling.

    BTW, I've seen older copies of TurboCAD Pro. going for around $100 on eBAY. I've got V11.2. Here's V11 + the 2 training CDs for $199:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/TurboCAD-Professional-11-2-Pro-2D-3D-Training-CDs_W0QQitemZ230093096133QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3771QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    It seems to get used for a lot of Architectural design, and some of the rendered examples are hard to tell from photos. I'm pretty sure the kitchen design places that worked with us when redoing our kitchen were using TurboCAD.

     
  15. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    As always, thank you very much for the great info!!!
     
  16. 308Mechanic

    308Mechanic Rookie

    Feb 19, 2007
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    Hello, I am looking for an adjustable shock/spring set up for a 308 I am working on, I have found Nick Forza's and one from Medicimotorsports, but neither seller has given me enough information or any testimonials to justify spending the $1200-1500.
    I like that you are all 308 owners and are working together to find a solution. I have used QA1 shocks on a light weight lotus 7 replica, but I have never seen them on a 3000lb car, but if you say people are happy with the set up then I will take your word for it. I don't mind cutting a small notch in the upper a-arm, but if you all are close to a solution to that than I will wait and pay the extra to have to extensions made.
    Are the QA1 shocks available anywhere in the US? Or can one of you supply me with a set with the correct spring rates for a road car?

    Thanks,
    308 GTB in Canada
     
  17. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    For purely entertainment purposes, would you (or Verell) indeed mind posting the plans (or just key dimensions) for the part. I need something to play with in AutoCad and a modeler demo, and will not steal your invention and become a billionaire (Monte Burns would not be proud). Perhaps you would consider including your drawings with a Paris Hilton type presentation to illustrate your purely "ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES" position.

    Just interested in saving 20 minutes with my trusty calipers. Thanks!!
     
  18. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #118 Verell, Feb 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Let's be clear, Birdman is the one saying 'Entertainment Purposes', NOT me. I'm proceding with detailed designs to get mfg. quotes. At this point it's pretty clear that there'll be a group buy.

    BTW, I believe I have an entertaining way of dealing with the liability issue.

    Here's a drawing of the Std QA1 Shock Eye as best my calipers could measure it. Since I just finished it @3:29 AM, there may be some discrepancies between it & reality.

    BTW, It took me 5 hours to create, mostly because I was gaining more 'experience' which is what you get when things don't work the way you expected them to... Sorry about the crude dimensioning on the rh side view, I did it last, & sort of painted myself into a corner, & am just too tired to clean it up...
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  19. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    If you search Tech Q&A, & the old Fchat Archives, you'll find about a dozen threads on using several different QA1 models, these are theiir 'street rod' shock lines, not their racing line of shocks. QA1 markets these shocks for Mustangs, Camaros, up thru the full size American cars. They are all coil-overs. There's their Aluma-matic non-adjustable shocks, And their single & dual adjustable models. Most people have been getting the single adjustables, but there's growing interest in the dual adjustables.

    There are quite a few places in the states that sell QA1s. Quite a few have been buying them from Summit Racing:
    http://www.summitracing.com

    A web search will turn several others up, or you can contact QA1:
    http://www.carrerashocks.com/
    & ask who's carrying them near you.

    Early in this thread are the 308 OEM spring rates for the GTS & GTB.

    Birdman has mentioned what he's using for springs earlier in this thread, they are pretty close to stock, & your search will turn up a fairly broad range of spring rates that people are using. Most of the higher spring rates are being used by people who track their cars heavily.
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #120 Birdman, Feb 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm pretty sure that means Verell doesn't want me to publish the drawings! Sorry!

    So wait, you are saying that it's for entertaining then? ;)

    This thread is really getting serious. Let me see what I can do....

    Birdman
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  21. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    Nice, that will work just fine. BTW, I do understand your comment on Birdman's "for entertainment purposes only". I am on your "buyers list", and I think it can be the real deal and entertaining simultaneously. My real motive (beyond getting an improved shock perch) is to learn some software design/modeling skills for another project (a triple Keihin carb throttle linkage system for my TR6). So, just stealing a bit from your efforts to learn a few things hopefully.

    I think I'm going to put a sticker on my Ferrari that says "for entertainment purposes only". That's pretty well sums up why I have the car.

    Thanks again!!!
     
  22. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

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    Group Buy Update:

    1) LouGaudio
    2) Perfusion
    3) Owens84QV
    4) chris03053
    5) Birdman (because he wants the clean 'production' version)
    6) 308tr6
    7) 308Mechanic
    8) ?
     
  23. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    Hmmm..... Would Verell's name fall under group buy too?;)
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    You can take me off the group buy list...I'm too lazy to pull the prototypes out again!!
     
  25. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    No, at least not for the 8 needed to get a group buy going, Looks like we're back to 6:
    1) LouGaudio
    2) Perfusion
    3) Owens84QV
    4) chris03053
    5) 308tr6
    6) 308Mechanic
    7) ?
    8) ?

    If I can get 8 sets signed up for, I'll order 10 sets. I'm sure I'll sell at least 1 set after the buy is formally open & the pricing is finalized, & at worst the 10th set will eventually end up on my car.
     

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