Question about supersonic flight. | FerrariChat

Question about supersonic flight.

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by ducrob, Mar 22, 2018.

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  1. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2011
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    Simply, can an aircraft fly through a horrendous weather front while supersonic...ie, would it be dangerous? Did the SR71 have to change flight plans for crap weather (maybe they flew way above it) or for instance, could an F15 rip right through a tornado going well above mach1?
     
  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Terry H Phillips
    SR-71s flew above the weather. Stresses on an aircraft going through a weather system are the same whether subsonic or supersonic. A tornado would likely rip the wings off an F-15, supersonic or subsonic. Most supersonic flight occurs well above severe weather systems and definitely above any tornados. Low level supersonic flight uses a huge amount of fuel. An F-15 supersonic (~Mach 1.2) at low level would burn about 120,000 lbs/hr of JP8. That amounts to a very short period spent supersonic at low altitudes.
     
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  3. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Flying at high speed in turbulence will kill an airplane. It doesn't have to be anywhere near Mach 1. The B-52 was designed to fly at very high altitudes where turbulence was almost non-existent . When they were assigned to low level penetration missions the turbulence started to chop them up. Any airplane is subjected to shear , up drafts and sudden down drafts are like a weather based guillotine and it simply chops up whatever blast through it at high speeds. If you fly on an airliner nowadays and it experiences turbulence, the airframe is designed to cope with it up to the rate of changes that it will face at the airspeeds at which it travels. You can see the wings flex and ripple and feel the " bumps". If the airplane was flying above the speed for which it is designed , it could very well come apart because the structure is not given the time to react to the loads applied, and might not be able to. That might not be a pure engineering-ese explanation but it's the best that I can do right now. Perhaps other chatters can add or correct.
     
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  4. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I guess that we are talking inertia and acceleration.
     
  5. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Thanks guys! It all makes sense now.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Most combat aircraft have a weather penetration airspeed to minimize damage in case you have to fly through it during combat missions or emergencies. It is generally well below cruise speed. On the F-111s I flew, it was 350 KCAS.
     
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  7. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Thanks Terry!! F111's.....yeah....I'm jealous!
     
  8. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
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    Every military airplane I flew had a warning against any flight into known thunderstorm activity and had specific optimum penetration speeds published in the Dash-1 or NATOPS in the event of inadvertent penetration. For example, for the F-16 it was 300KIAS or optimum cruise, whichever was slower; for the T-38 it was 280KIAS; and for the T-28B it is, oddly, a 125-185KIAS range.
     
  9. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    I've been listening to ww2 airforce vets being interviewed (a lot of these interviews were done in 2007). I was shocked at how many of these incredibly gifted fighter pilots were lost to poor weather.....I'm not talking about visibility, some of these guys literally had there planes torn apart!! Hence my starting this thread. I honestly never knew that this could happen. I think we have all seen those crazy scientists purposely flying into a hurricane or tornado and they seem to survive every time....confusing.
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Rob- They fly into hurricanes, but nobody flies into tornados. Completely different weather systems. Most of the WW-II fighter pilots had only rudimentary instrument flying ability, according to my father, who was a P-47D pilot in the 86th FBG in WW-II. Many of those losses in weather were the result of spatial disorientation. Plus remember, none of those aircraft had weather radars, so limited clues to how bad the weather was. Maybe a P-61 could see weather, or some of the other night fighters, but even those radars had very limited range and capabilities. Modern fighters (and airliners) can see and avoid extreme weather.
     
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  11. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Terry, one of my employees has a private pilots license so no radar. What does weather look like on radar? I could probably search this question on the inter webs but would like to hear from an airforce vet. A good friend of mine is a Sr Captain for Air Canada....he has literally screamed (cockpit door was obviously sealed) when they hit some weather and dropped like a stone off the California coast. The air hosts hit the ceiling, food carts hit the passengers....yeah....bad. Another thing that really scared him was a report from an air host at three in the morn while over the Barent Sea of "the smell of smoke"...that one really rattled him.
     
  12. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Just realized I'm rambling....been working for 14 hours. Goodnight. Oh, Terry, did your dad mix it up with the enemy? Would love it if you could share some stories. Did you see combat? I understand if you want to keep that private. My dad was military and I loved his stories. Odd thing though, I was forbidden to join...I would have gone airforce though.
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Weather looks like a very large radar return, very bright where it is the thickest. Dad got shot at, but the 86th FBG was mostly ground attack. I flew 20 combat sorties in Desert Storm in the F-111F and got shot at, too. We dropped mostly PGMs at night.
     
  14. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Hi Terry, here in Canada/main stream media, F111 was always a Vietnam aircraft...and really, Cold War low altitude ship. I had NO idea that your aircraft was involved in that dispute. I loved watching the news back then....I also miss my hair.....
     
  15. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

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    Was dad in Italy? Fogia?..
     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    No, the 86 FBG had moved to France when he showed up. He ended up as part of the occupation forces in Germany after the war. Did not come back until Summer 1947.
     

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