Interesting thread and evokes some strong personal memories of the time... The Prost v Senna rivalry transcended motorsports around the world. As the "Senna" movie pointed out ad nausea, Senna's rise came as a result of his second place finish at the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix which it was decided the rain was too much and Jacky Ickx as course marshall decided to end the race early due to safety concerns. What the "Senna" documentary failed to mention, of course, was that half points were awarded as a result of the race being called early. Thus, Prost lost the championship by half a point (.5) to his McLaren team mate Niki Lauda. Had the race continued to the scheduled race distance and Senna caught and passed Prost for the lead relegating Prost to second place, he would have won the 1984 World Championship, strange irony. So, while a race win may have gone into Prost's copybook, the awarding of half points thwarted a very closely fought World Championship with Lauda in the season that was dominated by McLaren TAG Porsche. Notice Prost's career total of 768.5 points (amended per the rules at the time), the .5 came as a result of the half points situation at Monaco. In fact, Prost very nearly lost out on three more potential World Championships, finishing second in the points in 1983 for Renault to Piquet, 1984 for McLaren (as noted to Lauda), 1988 for McLaren (Senna) and 1990 for Ferrari (Senna) by a grand total of only 10.5 points, otherwise Prost would be seven times World Champion. It seems, in death, drivers gain a weirdly sympathetic fan following (witness Dale Earnhardt, Sr.). While Senna had a huge following particularly in Brazil and Japan, he wasn't nearly as popular in Europe as he was seen as being entitled, an attitude that race wins and championships were his birthright, thus he thought he could get away with just about anything on the track such as literally climbing over Nannini's Benetton in the chicane at Hungary and then, of course, driving up Prost's gear box at Suzuka taking both himself and Prost's Ferrari out and sealing himself the World Championship, one of the biggest no-class moves in the history of motorsport. The "Senna" documentary was garbage film making at its worst. A fan boy in India, of all places, was able to get his hands on lifted TV footage (courtesy of Bernie Ecclestone) to make this point that Senna was this immortal character, despite constantly going against the stream, fighting with the FIA, all this. But, notice a few nuances of the "Senna" documentary, the lifted TV footage was taken from the Monaco and Japanese races as if these two races were the only ones that counted. I discount the "Senna" documentary as little more than a fluff piece and as documentaries go, completely without merit especially considering the voice overs, for most of which we have no idea who is talking and how these disembodied voices relate to the subject in context. As noted, both Senna and Prost were extraordinarily fast. Senna was a hugely gifted driver, no question of that. But, he was also ruthless and entitled to the point of being dangerous and he was hard on equipment. Prost on the other hand was also a hugely gifted driver but possessed a great mechanical sympathy for the car(s) and therefore knew how to get a car to the finish. This was no more evident than Monza 1989 (where I was in attendance) and Mexico City 1990. Watch these races and witness Prost's genius, especially at Mexico when he came from thirteenth on the grid to work his way to the lead while Senna baked his tires. At the Brazilian state funeral for Senna, many of the contemporary and previous Formula One drivers turned out to pay their respects, including Prost. Had the situation been reversed however, do we honestly think Senna would have done the same? BHW
I liked the Senna movie a lot. Didn't think for a moment it was garbage. The fact that it is Senna's own voice doing the narration is even more haunting and makes it very real.
I had the pleasure of watching Senna race many times at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. And while I had no love for McLaren the team (being a Ferrari fan), I respected Senna the driver. I think what impressed me most was in all those years of seeing him race was that he NEVER made a mistake. Always in control, always fast, always perfect in terms of pace and rhythm. The only time we saw him fail to finish a race was the year the car let him down and Thierry Boutsen won.
I watched Senna make plenty of mistakes, i saw him live twice, but didn't notice anything diferent,..just cared for Alesi
Senna was the type of driver who would get everything a car could give. In his final season with McLaren, while Prost was in the invincible Williams, he had 5 wins and was leading the championship half way through the season. His drive at Donnington is the stuff of legend. He believed he was the best, he used arrogance to prove it to every other driver, sometimes successfully other times no so much. Sometimes he crossed a line, but isn't that what racing is? Going for it. He was 10/10ths all the time.
I think his most epic mistake was hitting the guard rail before the tunnel at Monaco; he was so far ahead and so in the zone that he really didn't need to prove anything to anyone. He was skirting the limit lap after lap, its no surprise he eventually found it.
Mistaking Senna's voice as narration rather than what it was, outtakes from various interviews that were supplied to Asif Kapadia just like the TV racing and personal footage is not documentary film making, rather than piecing together canned footage that Bernie owned which was okayed by the Senna family which anyone could have done with Final Edit on a laptop computer. The other voices were never identified. Thus, other than perhaps John Bisignano, the arrogant American FOP who was Senna's chief apologist on the ESPN broadcasts, none of the other voices were relevant as viewers simply didn't know who they were. It was an extreme disconnect. The film was amatuer, making its reception by critics all the more confounding as the subject matter certainly deserved better. That said, any championship calibre driver regardless of the era, had the team wrapped around their aspirations. When TAG Porsche left McLaren, replaced by Honda, they brought Senna with them. It was Prost's team but at the first combined test, it was Senna who was getting the preferential treatment (this was even noted in the movie) and obviously, this didn't go down well with Prost. A lot of the issues between Prost and Senna are left at Ron Dennis' feet. The interaction was not handled right. And, as we saw in subsequent years, McLaren's handling of their team drivers hasn't always gone well, notably the Alonso/Hamilton debacle. I was at the 1989 Italian Grand Prix at Monza photographing for Panorama Magazine. This was mere days after Prost had signed with Ferrari for 1990. As Senna stormed off into the lead at a crazy pace, Prost held his pace, preserving his tires and engine. Everyone was shaking their heads at Senna's pace and just as he passed me going into Parabolica, his engine exploded in a huge cloud of smoke which allowed Prost to cruise to the victory. The roar of the TIFOSI was heard over the engine noise from around the track was chilling, I'll never forget it. The TIFOSI went mad as Prost may as well have been a Ferrari driver that day. The pit lane under the podium was a mob scene. What was notable was that no one from McLaren joined Prost on the podium, so there he was with Berger and Boutsen only with no team officials taking part. And, so the race officials handed the manufacture's trophy to Prost who took it to the edge of the podium and dropped it to the TIFOSI below. That was a pretty good F-you to Ron Dennis and happened no more than 15' from where I was standing in the delirious throng. BHW
I guess we have to agree to disagree. BTW: Your avatar represents a movie I thought was really bad. Unlike the Senna documentary.
Yeah... I think Senna would shown respect for Prost in death. They may have been fierce competitors and bitter rivals, but its seems Senna had a sensitive consciousness.
I liked "LE MANS" great movie for it's time, as for "SENNA'S" the way they portraited Prost was crap, it shows a total lack of knowledge and acuracy from an historic point of view...poor movie imo.
No, but we used to head up to Montreal every year starting in the 80s for about 20 years until the hybrid era began...
Me too. Im a Ferrari fan, NOT a particular "Driver" fan. You don't drive for Ferrari, I don't like you. If you DROVE for Ferrari and did "Something" I will respect you.
I was at the 89 Monza race as well just before the Parabolica where Senna's engine blew up (lots of little pieces of engine spewed into the air). The crowd went wild when his car was dead and Prost won the race (it seemed like a Ferrari win due to Prost going to Ferrari the next year). Until the engine blew he was increasing his lead and the crowd was not happy .... not angry at senna, just disappointed the red cars were falling behind Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don't know, I hadn't ever thought I would hear anyone who watched senna not to feel the same way as I do, that he was just a 'force of nature', a talent above all others. He didn't seem to have to follow specific regimes and technical training, he just got in, felt the limits of the car, then went 10 clicks over them and danced around the lap...... I for one found his drives mesmeric (okay, some were just boring processions) but when he had a car under him that could cope with a race, ayrton instinctively took it to the max, every lap. Michael was similar, but michaels outright talent was enhanced by his technical knowledge, understanding and adaptability, he made the most of the development of the entire car and incorporated what was necessary to change into his driving style. Only fernando of the current crop really has the same intense racing brain and skill of those two, some come very close, but they were, and remain in my mind, the ultimate opposing versions of the same total racing talent
This is all I can agree with in your post mate, furoni and I don't like Alonso plus I never liked Senna's arrogance. Michael was almost humble in comparison
I can understand people finding him arrogant, the thing is, at least he had something to be arrogant about, unlike a certain current driver (aside from Pedro's best bud), who has about as much in common with Senna as I have with the Pope!
Senna was adored throughout his career, ever since his legendary 84 race in Monaco. Now when i see people say f1 was better before im not so sure because in the prost/senna era the mclaren dominance was such that it was a bit biring to watch. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Senna didn't wait for his tires to get back to temp. That caused bottoming out. That caused the failure that cause the crash that caused the suspension part to pierce Senna's head. He was an obsessed driver...which is different than being an inspired or brilliant or just plain great. Prost was better. Schumacher was better. Hamilton and Vettle are better. Stewart was better and won just as many titles as Senna, and lived to tell about it. And he never screwed people in doing so.
