Bingo! I'd modify that by saying "some" Ferrari owners... and on that note I'll agree completely. These are just machines made by men. They are dieties. I too often reuse copper seals with no issue. Rarely I'll anneal them. I was taught to be sure you soot things well for the very reason Steve mentions... so they cool without an oxygen rich environment. Seems to work just fine. And when they are too far gone, replace them. Best to use common Sense, not Cents. Rick
And WHERE were the copper "carb" seals on this injected QV motor??? <trying to stay on topic> (yes, there are 16+ on the fuel distributor) Rick
i'm amused by the controversy over replacing probably one of the least expensive parts on the car. this thread should be put alongside the "what kind of air is in your tires" thread. if i recall it too was hotly contested.
Yeah, well, it isn't the cost of the washers that is the issue, it is having to source them and then waste time going out to buy them. Think about it: if you can use it again and again, why replace it?
Easy to source at least for the oil/gearbox. NAPA. Went down and bought a dozen for about $5. Cheap and easy.
you're fortunate, proper sized metric copper crush washers are not so easy to come by. I have to special order them from specific import suppliers for my shop. I did buy out the last of one of the local suppliers stock of 22~32mm washers in copper no NLA as they are moving over to aluminum. I keep every single copper washer I come across when replacing for a new one, re-aneal the washer and it's good to go again, I use an inductive coil heat source to keep oxidation issues to a min. another hard to get one now is cadmium plated metric hardware. 9 times out of ten a leak at the drain plug is from over torque or cross threading, bad weld repair and even the porosity of the casting. the large pan surface also can be warped if not torqued down properly and that will also get you migratory leaks.
Scott, I don't know about all sizes (would assume not) but for the ones on the Fuel Injection, Larry Fletcher seems to have a good and constant source. He's always had whatever I've needed. Rick
Ahhh good 'ol Larry he's also got some great connections to the motherland as well. Thankfully I don't have a shortage of those, it's the larger sized ones that can be difficult.
Ok, thanks for all of the info. As of now I have called pierce manifolds and all they have are fiber washers. I would really like to get some new copper washers but don't know where to look. Because of where I live I will probably need to order some. Anyone have a good source?
At under $1.00/each, should be a no-brainer. The cost of time/ect. having to do the job a second time because of the washer leaking to me more than justifies the cost of a new washer. Do it once and be done with it.
I'd bet good money Larry Flectcher get his from Bosch Germany like I do. I'd bet Bosch USA can help at much less than a buck each. They (Bosch GmbH) do me anyway. I never reuse a washer, but as even Bosch migrates to aluminum from copper I will reuse copper washers to maintain some symblance of origionality. Some washer sizes like the ones under the set screw caps of a fuel distributer, Bosch does not make anymore. I just bought the next smaller size and stretched them slightly by tapping them down on a circular graduated metal punch (think jeweler's ring sizer). They are copper colored, they stretched, they now fit and no leaks. My 2 Cents EU.
The reason Pierce has fiber washers is that fiber washers were used by Weber- NOT copper washers. They are cheap. Buy a dozen of each and replace them every time you disturb them. If you're talking about something other than Webers, use what the manufacturer's spec is. Anton
Well I have my car back together and running again. I used the fiber washers from Pierce and they are weeping fuel. I have retightened them a few times but am afraid of over tightening and the possibility of striping the threads on the carbs. I just got done snuging them down this evening and will have to watch them over the next couple of days.
Gasoline - issue - replace them with like product. I agree. So, you'd rather risk your car. Also, I know folks that have had no accidents for 25 years, and the first one they are in kills them. We're talking about an expensive car here, and you want to scrimp on WASHERS? Ok........
McMaster-Carr has copper washers in a variety of sizes. I am pretty sure they will ship to Alaska or anywhere else. Ordering them is not difficult, time-consuming, or expensive. http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-sealing-washers/=cnl76u http://www.mcmaster.com/#copper-flat-washers/=cnl8oi Other sources should be easy enough to locate if you look, with assortment boxes containing many common sizes or packets of a single size as above being readily available. Best of luck.
Thanks for the replies. I will get new copper washers asap. When Pierce said the fiber was what Weber called for I thought they would work but it looks like copper is the way to go.
The fiber washers we get today are a different material than what was once supplied. It just does not work or at least it does not work reliably. I abandoned their use a long time ago except on the rare occasions I can actually find the old style Webber washers. Copper works and it works well but a very high degree of caution needs to be used. Any but the latest of Webbers used an alloy more akin to hardened lead than to aluminum. Tightening any of the fasteners very tight is hazardous and that applies to the banjo bolts. New copper washers tightened just past the yield point will work, I have done it many times but very close scrutiny for leaks is required. As long as we are talking about hardened lead, take the time now to Helicoil all the air box studs in the top covers and use new nylock nuts on them. Those particular pieces have killed many motors from coming adrift.
I just ordered washers for the carb banjo connections from McMaster Carr. Part number Description Qty $ 97725A250 M12, Cu sealing washers 25 8.70 95606A451 3/8 inch Nylon 66 washers, 0.02-0.04 thick 100 5.96 Estimated shipping by standard UPS ground (usually next day) 7.00 I thought it would be worth while to conduct a little test by adding a pair of Nylon washers to either side of the copper washers on one joint. The hope was to reduce the the necessary clamping force to achieve a leak free joint. I just fitted Belleville washers (also from McMaster Carr) to each of the carb hold down studs to ensure a reliable clamping load. Bill
Bad Idea. You just doubled the chances of a leak. Stick with the copper and don't try reinventing the wheel.
Actually the copper washers can be used twice without annealing etc. On 2nd use, flip the washer over so a new sealing surface is exposed.
So you pour $90.00 to what, maybe $150.00 worth of oil into your car, and then re-use a $1.00 washer and risk losing most of your oil when it leaks, and creating a huge mess. Thats solid thinking.
