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Questions about R&R a 1990 TR clutch

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Scott, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. Scott

    Scott Karting

    Feb 22, 2002
    105
    Yorba Linda CA
    Full Name:
    Scott Grossman
    Damn, new things were going to good after the 30K service. Car ran great for the last 4 or 5 months now I think my clutch is on its last legs.

    When its cold it slips when you give it some gas. Once it warms up it seems to be fine unless you nail it in 4th or 5th and then you get a little bit of rubberband effect (RPMs go up faster than car accelerates).

    My question is how difficult is it to R&R the clutch. Any hidden gotya's or tricks that make the job easier? Wheres the best place to get parts, and are ferrari replacement parts the way to go or should I get aftermarket?

    TIA
    Scott
     
  2. vincenzo

    vincenzo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,368
    Am told the original supplier for the clutch is APRacing.

    The twin disc TR clutch's APRacing PN# is;
    CP2819-27BRN
    Clutch-240CERx2-SPLxND

    Cost appx 2k$ from TRutlands (complete with PP & discs - no TO bearing etc).

    With that PN, it will be interesting if you find a better source, like;

    http://www.eurospares.co.uk/ferrari/ferrari_clutches.htm

    at 895GBP = 1570USD - - plus duty & shipping(?)

    Good Luck,
    Vince
     
  3. PSP

    PSP Formula Junior

    Mar 31, 2001
    603
    Lake Forest, CA USA
    Full Name:
    Patrick S. Perry
    Strange question time -

    When installing a new clutch, you have to measure the thickness of the plate "sandwich", and then subtract it from a number listed in the workshop manual to determine what size spacers have to go between the pressure plate and flywheel. Apparently these spacers can go from 0 to about 1mm.

    If your clutch gets to point (like Scott's) where it is just starting to slip, can't you just take out the spacers? Would that give you enough grip so that the car could be driven safely and not damage the flywheel with heat related to slipping?
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,644
    socal
    PSP,

    In theory you are correct. What you say works if you just keep the set-up height correct on any clutch system. However, you also have to realize that the clutch plate is not a solid surface. It is two friction surfaces riveted to a marcel spring rivited to a splined plate. So when you wear the friction material you just about expose the rivits. It is those rivits that will score your FW and if they fail to hold the clutch together if you do wear them out you can have an explosive mess on your hands. So The key to rmember especially when just resurfacing the clutch plate for 50 bucks VS getting a whole new AP system for 2k is to know the dimension of the clutch when compressed with the marcel. And your resurfacer has to have brains enough to do more than just slap a plate on. If you fail to do this you can have too much friction material such that the finger springs will not release the clutch plate.
     
  5. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    I've never replaced the clutch on a TR before. If it is like the 348, it's not too tough. Did you know that you can send the whole clutch pack down to Norwood's and they can have the discs resurfaced with kevlar, the plates resurfaced reassembled and shipped back. Works nice. That's how I did mine.
     
  6. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

    Interesting.

    And the price for that is? -g
     
  7. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I'm shocked whoever did the 30K service did not inspect the clutch. Isn't this the major service?
     
  8. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    124
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Hi Scott

    Here in Australia, I just had my clutch fully rebuilt, machined, etc and it came back like new, and it cost about AU$700.00 as opposed to AU$3000.00+ for a new one. Initially I tried to match a clutch from another car, (as I didn’t think Ferrari would have it made just for them) and I think some old Jaguars use the same twin plate setup, but I don’t think Jag OEM is any cheaper then Ferrari OEM. If you wanted to save some $$ have your clutch rebuilt, if you can’t find anyone in the US to rebuild your clutch, it seams it would be worth you sending it to Australia with the exchange rate being so much in your favour, I think with shipping it would be about US$750.00 - $800.00 in total and turn around time about 14 days (they only need about 5 days, the rest is shipping). If interested, contact Master Brake & Clutch on + 61 2 9715 1511.
    To save even more $$ you can machine off, in a lathe, the lip of your T/O bearing housing and press the old bearing out, then replace just the bearing inside with locktight bearing retainer, tap down the small lip left behind from the pressing, back over the new bearing, I added three tack welds, just to be sure. Here in Australia, a new TR T/O bearing is around AU$700.00 the replacement SKF bearing cost me AU$20.00 and about two hours work.

    Steve

    PS Replacing the clutch isn’t too difficult if you have a workshop manual.
     
  9. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    124
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Scott

    I would also ask the mechanic if he even looked at the clutch when he did the ‘major’, and if not, why not?

    Steve
     
  10. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Scott,

    I put a new clutch in my 91 TR this summer. It was not a bad job. There is a thread in the archives that walks thru the entire deal. The rub I had was actually rebuilding the slave cylinder, but that is because I did it blind with no real advice. I took pics and everything is posted, so you won't have any probs. Search for '91 TR clutch replacement thread. The best price for a new clutch kit was Ferrari UK, but TRutlands matched it and I saved a bit of shipping. You will be told to rebuild the slave cylinder while you have it apart. Just be sure to read the thread I refer to.

    It would not be standard to take the clutch apart in a 30K service. No reason to do that. They just start slipping one day, and then they have to be replaced.

    I would not take a chance on rebuild. Very highly engineered clutch.

    BTW, the same thread basically can be found on FCA site.

    Good luck. Feel free to PM any questions.

    Jim
     
  11. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    124
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    There is nothing special about a Ferrari Testarossa clutch, in our case, it is a Borg & Beck standard twin plate, and the splines look very similar to a one of a Chevy. Nothing special, not highly engineered, you can find the same engineering on older Ford clutches, here in Australia (not sure which US models), and any car, which requires a light peddle. A competent clutch rebuilder should be able to rebuild your clutch and make improvements which will make it better then original, my one was rebuilt with stainless steel backed clutch lining. They also used brass rivets which will not destroy the flywheel when worn down, and most of all you can get an asbestos lining, Kevlar lining or ceramic lining, your preference, I chose, tried and proven, asbestos, which you will have alot of trouble finding OEM.

    It is not standard to take the clutch apart on a 30K service but the mechanic should have simply looked through the bell housing vent holes, where the thickness of the clutch can clearly be seen.

    Steve
     
  12. vincenzo

    vincenzo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,368
    So... TRutlands said that AP Racing is the OEM supplier. A disconnect(?)

    According to:
    http://www.business-journal.com/LateFeb00/DelphiAP.html

    Apparently Delphi, who bought Borg&Beck, is now also the owner of "AP Distribution Services" who presumably owns AP Racing.

    Big brother is not a Government - it is a web of Corporations. Growing and expanding all the time.

    Sorry for the digression.

    Rgds,
    Vince
     
  13. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    124
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
     

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