News

Questions about the Mondial as a daily driver

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by eskamobob1, May 11, 2020.

  1. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    Hey Guys,

    Im in the market for a mondial and was looking for some advice on generations/cab vs coupe given my requirements (not sure if this is a valid thread to ask in. Ill move if needed). Long story short is, this will be replacing as my second car (not third or forth), and I need to make sure the what models/generations will do what I need.

    The 3 absolute necessities are that:
    1) the car be water tight
    it will be street parked and I 100% plan to drive it in rain as well.
    2) It be usable for road trips
    I make trips back and forth between socal and norcal 4-5 times a year and my other two cars are very distinctly a city car and a track car (this car is replacing a 996 I recently got rid of). Im not expecting any real luxury at all.I just need to be able to hear my radio over the wind noise and have a decent seat
    3) It must handle traffic
    Im in socal so I just never know when I will hit traffic and need to not be worried about overheating/burning cats when I do.

    Here are my main questions:
    A) Is wind noise in a cab really that bad with the top up?
    On the road trips its not uncommon to cruise near 100 and I have had cabs that are over 100dB at that speed and ones you can have a dinner conversation in. Im wondering where exactly the mondial cab falls and if certain gens are better about it than others
    B) Can you reliably make a cab water tight?
    C) Would any of the models have more issues than others with traffic?
    I know the 355s have a ton of trouble with it, but I know virtualy nothing about the T/348 drive train. From everything I have read the drive train of the QV or 3.2 should handle it just fine
    D) Curious question - any of the cars have noticeably better AC than the others?
    I dont even own a car with AC currently, so obviously not a big deal, just curious.
    E) Any of the cars have engines known to go longer than others (assuming full proper maintenance)?
    I will likely put 4k+ on it a year

    Honestly, I would really prefer a coupe just look wise, but the cabs are so much more readily available I figured I should ask. The cabs are also easier to find with a bit rougher interior/exteriors tbh and I realy dont want a mint car given I will be street parking it. I also plan to do all of my own work. I know the Ts are more complex engine wise and have the variable suspension, but the PS is a bit enticing. Having to drop the gas tank to do a service is a PITA but Ill get over it for every 30k.
     
    sixcarbs, davemqv and paulchua like this.
  2. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,060
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Sounds like you need to look at a much newer car instead. Your "necessities " are unreasonable for 25+ year old cars.

    Maybe a California instead? It's a 2+2 hard top convertible.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  3. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    Ah, seriously? If I am being utterly honest, I didnt think anything other than the wind noise would actualy be an issue. I currently use a 74 beetle for the exact same tasks (except my road trips are a perpetual 65), so I kinda figured it wouldnt be a massive issue. That pretty disappointing to hear tbh. I'm not really interested in anything front engine, but would a 360 meet those reqs? I have no need for the extra space of a mondial if I am honest. I just like the weirdness of a 2+2 mid engine.

    Mind if I ask what of my reqs would be the toughest for a mondial to meet?
     
  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,060
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Water tight as the number one absolute necessity? Maybe if you live in an area where it never rains. ;)

    And no, you don't drop the gas tank to do a full service on the t. Just because one or two people did doesn't mean that's the proper way of doing it.
     
  5. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    I mean, convertible tops from the 80s no longer being water tight in the first place/needing all new seals to be isnt exactly uncommon. This issue led to permanently stained leather in 911 SC in its first rainstorm so im now pretty careful about it (especially since this car will be street parked). Handling traffic I guess is more important, but if the cab wont seal its a deal breaker anyways so neither is really more important than the other

    Mind if I ask what the issue with the method is? I know its a lot more difficult to work with that little room, but I have only ever found people singing the praises of the method or never mentioning it at all. I havent looked into it much though as I wasnt honestly considering a T very heavily at all.
     
  6. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,060
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Being that this is the "For Sale" thread (about Mondials for sale by other than the person selling) try the Mondial Forum. Do a search there, loads of info plus the information you're seeking as well. I'd rather not rehash it here (e.g. the repair manual says "pull the motor"). Good luck.
     
  7. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    Yah, I wasnt really sure where to post this, but I figured a mod would tell me to move it if it was an issue. Would I be better off making a new thread for my question about models and cab vs coupe?

    As for the belt service, Ill look around some more and see if I can find anything.
     
  8. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,060
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    I would search/peruse first. There are several that are recent in regards to your questions. Take note of the threads' date since the search engine here is very random. In other words, a person that you reply to (from 15 years ago) may no longer be active. However, if the older thread is what you need, then maybe start a new one and include a link to the old. Just an idea.
     
  9. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    I havent looked for the service info yet, but I did try looking up my questions about traffic, wind noise, sealing the roof to not much avail before I posted here. Basically everything I got was one guy going "nah, cars cant do that" and then the next going "my car does that fine" and aesthetic differences between generations are all just aesthetic instead of functional (maybe there arent real functional differences in the grand sense tbf, but I havent see that said)
     
  10. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    5,903
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    If a coupe is what you prefer....... parking outside will be much safer, dryer, etc....plus over time not sure how the top itself holds up.....so yet another cost.
     
    eskamobob1 and paulchua like this.
  11. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    30,060
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    I've known several with Mondial Cabs and they all say that stowing the top is a royal pain... and it's not something you'd want to do on a daily basis. My last convertible, on the other hand, took only a few minutes to stow the top, and that includes putting on the tonneau cover.
     
    eskamobob1 and paulchua like this.
  12. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Moderator Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,365
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Welcome! Sorry for brevity, as you have a lot of questions!
    1) Watertight - I have unfortunately not been able to get mine watertight, I don't recommend driving in the rain...that said - I bet one can make it watertight if you spend time on it.
    2) I know that exact drive....it is very doable, but would definitely rather have a different car to do it! The car is awesome for drives that last say 2 hours at a time.
    3) Never had an issue, that said - not fun at all to have a gated/heavy clutch in traffic
    A) Wind noise can get annoying if you're driving hours on end. A few hours, fine.
    B) I think so, I have not tried - but the leaks for me are from the upper corners of the windshield - probably can weather strip it
    C) I don't think so - if properly maintained, should have no problems in traffic
    D) I believe the t has an upgraded AC
    E) the 3/3.2/3.4 are all quite robust, it's not the engines themselves that go south - but the ancillary components.

    Let me know if you have any questions.
     
    davemqv, eskamobob1 and ronfrohock like this.
  13. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2014
    545
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    MikeS
    Mondials are fantastic and fun cars. However, given your requirements a 997 would be a better option for about the same price. ;)

    2cam
     
  14. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    #14 eskamobob1, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    I honestly didnt think about how the top would hold up to the elements. Not to mention just the roof, but I would probabaly haze up that rear window real quick too being in socal (I didnt think about it since they are all clear, but 95% of these cars are probably garage kept with the top down). Thats a real good point. I probably will just go with a coupe unless I get some screaming deal on a cab or something.

    Haha, yah. Only cars I have ever actually regularly utilized the convertible top on have been manual roofs you can put down and up in 10s. If I had to guess, the roof would stay up on this car 90% of the time.


    No worries at all on the brevity! And ty for moving this. Really wasn't sure where it should go.

    1) I kinda figured tbh. Not really the answer I wanted, but it was what i expected. TY.
    2) Well, the good news here is that I am a massive automotive masochist, so I put up with a fair bit. Only thing that realy gets to me is just crazy wind noise (and not being able to do 65 up hill....). What exactly is it that gets to you? FWIW, I do plan to add cruise to the car (I have done so for about half a dozen cars older now without permanent modification so I dont think that should be an issue)
    3) Is the clutch quite heavy in mondials? The only Fcar I have driven was a modified 355 and the clutch wasnt any kind of weight even worth mentioning (not super light but by no means heavy). I guess I just assumed a mondial would be the same. Are certain generations much heavier than others (clutch wise)? FWIW, I dont plan to drive the car in traffic, I just can never guarantee I wont hit any.

    A) Sounds good enough. Pretty well a normal level of noise for a bit older of a convertible?
    B) Fair enough. Ill look into this more but will probably mostly avoid cabs
    C) Sounds great! I hadnt heard any issues about them specifically in traffic (like the 355 has) so I was hoping no news was good news.
    D) Well damn. The T keeps sounding sweet, but all the added complexity sounds like a massive PITA.
    E) haha. Sounds like just about every car I buy. Rotating assembly is good for 500k, but everything around it is made with 80s plastics. Thank you again for the information.

    I mean, if we are being real honest, what best fits my needs (and pretty well every one elses too) is a 6 year old Fiesta or minivan with a suspension seat and aftermarket radio. Im not sure any fcar purchase is one of pure reason though. Also, honestly, im kinda looking for something under 300 hp. I got rid of my 996 turbo because I couldnt the speeds at which the car was fun would send me directly to jail, and in my experience, the 997 is similar. An SC is certainly an option, but I have already done that so I want to try something new.
     
    paulchua and 2cam like this.
  15. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Moderator Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,365
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I just stow mine back and don't use the cover, works fine - no issues - just keep the 3/4 window up and the wind won't lift the top


    1) The leaks come from heavy rain in the top corner of the front windshield - I think one should be able to fix
    2) The car is remarkably comfortable, but only for about 2 hours max - then the firm seats start getting too harsh, the engine note is beautiful, but 6-7 hours of it - is just 'too much' music for me.
    3) The clutch is not heavy for me for 1-2 hours, but after say 3-4 hours - my calves are screaming
    A) It's not bad at all for shorter trips - but LA to SF? Oh man - my ears will ask for mercy right around the 2 hour mark
    B) Coupes are cool, but only about 40 in the USA
    C) Had mine for 7 years now, only breakdowns were first-year sorting through the stuff the previous owners didn't care about. The last 6 years have been reliable.
    D) You do need to do engine out every 3-5 years, keep that in mind.
    E) Yup! Keep in mind though, cost to upkeep a 30 year old Ferrari is about 10X what you would expect a standard car. YMMV - 7 years I've spent at least 30K I would say.

    Best wishes to you, don't hesitate if you have any additional questions. Happy to answer them for you.
    Cheers
     
    eskamobob1 likes this.
  16. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    5,903
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    Meant to add as well A/C.....
    Mine works well. But with a typical black canvas like top in a cab......it must be a huge difference.

    So coupe wins there too. Don't think mine would do well as a cab
     
    eskamobob1 likes this.
  17. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,146
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    As a multiple Mondial owner, based on your requirements what you need is a 94 or 95 lotus esprit :0
     
    eskamobob1 likes this.
  18. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 8, 2009
    1,060
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    JERRY
    That was the exact thing with my 600 horse 997 turbo. Absolutely worthless on the street. Every time I nailed it I was into “go to jail” territory and If you weren’t accelerating like a dragster it was kind of dull.



    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    You have been a massive help thus far. Truly, thank you.

    1) If the top corner of the windshield a common leak area? I have seen 3 mondial sale ads in the past week that have rust right there.
    2/A) Very fair. Guess this is something I will 100% have to just test and determine myself.
    3) Thats plenty good enough for me. I never plan to drive it in traffic, I just wanted to make sure I can tollerate it if I need to.

    B) Ah, yah. If I do go coupe it will almost certainly not be a T. I dont mind the higher maitience, but the higher maintenance combined with the price premium (seems like they tend to go for 50-60, right?) just doesnt really make sense to me. Ive petty predominantly been looking for QV and 3.2 coupes. The T at this point is mostly just a "wouldnt that be cool".
    C) Honestly, as more and more of my friends get some classic F cars I have been comming to the conclusion that just like porsche, the real reason they are a pain is because of PO and not because of the car (outside of standard stuff that just goes wrong with age ofc). Only real problem is they are all across the country so I cant exactly bug them to test drive their cars.
    D) I plan to do all the maintenance myself. While I would obviously rather not have to do engine outs, I'm not all that scared of doing it. Would be a real great way to justify a lift for my garage too ;)
    E) I figured I would budget 1k/year + a 10k reserve incase something major happens, and figure probabaly 3-4k in parts needed upon purchase of basicaly any car. Would you say thats a reasonable backup budget?

    Thats another good point. TBH, dont see any reason to get a cab at this point unless I get some screaming deal.

    Ill be honest, I have lusted after a series 3 turbo since long before I even knew the mondial existed. I have thought of one, but everything I have ever read on them says they dont meet any of my deal breaker requirements....

    Seriously man. Its not like im very old, but I have pretty well cemented the idea as I stop being a child that I have 0 desire for big power. Im not skilled enough on a track and it isnt fun on the streets. All it really means fr me at this point is that I cant find the limits and I get big tickets. Basically no upside.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  20. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 28, 2004
    1,571
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I bought a QV coupe as I wanted to be able to hear the radio and hold a conversation at speed. You do know that the cabriolets don’t have a seal at the top of the window, the top just overhangs the glass. The coupe has fulfilled my need for having conversation at speed minus the wind noise of the mirrors. Ferrari eventually fixed it with air deflectors that are either NLA or outrageous in price. But parking it on the street, trips to N Cal., traffic, rain, I just don’t see it. I’m sure it can be done but not by me, I’ll take the sport SUV. Besides you’d put more miles on it in a year or two than it had when you bought it. Very un Ferrari if you ask me. :)
     
  21. M. Brandon Motorcars

    Sponsor

    Sep 4, 2007
    1,427
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Michael Foertsch
    Given your requirements, I would highly recommend a Mondial coupe. Either a QV or a 3.2. Both are rare, but not as rare as a T coupe.

    I've been sort-of-daily driving an 86 3.2 coupe, and have taken multiple road trips in it, and I have no issues driving it over long distances. Completely watertight, of course.
     
    eskamobob1 and Texas Forever like this.
  22. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    I had no idea the cab didnt have a proper seal at the top. Honestly, that seems weird as hell. Not like it was the first time they have built a cab. Ty for the info on the cabin noise of the coupe. As for being "un Ferrari", I quite honestly couldnt give the single vaguest of a **** about what people who dont use their cars say about the fact that I use mine. If I have to pay taxes for the gov to call my possession a car, I'm damn well going to use it as one. Not like im even in the market for a car where mileage matters much anyways.

    TYVm for the info. That is what I figured the answer would be. Just a bit annoying that they are tougher to find. If I would just give in to my temptation to impulse buy **** I would be on the brown QV coupe auction on ebay right now. But ultimately I think ima bide my time for probably 3.2 and hopefully a better color (yellow or deep blue hopefuly, but I probably cant be too picky)
     
  23. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,146
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    Ill be honest, I have lusted after a series 3 turbo since long before I even knew the mondial existed. I have thought of one, but everything I have ever read on them says they dont meet any of my deal breaker requirements....

    I've owned a 94 S4 for probably 10 years. I'm in the upper mid west and driving season is short, but the Esprit is my "all weather" summer driver. Never worry about the fiberglass body and rain, Water tight yes. Surprising amount of cargo space. My wife and I would often take a 4 days trip which included 2 sets of golf clubs. Handles traffic just fine. HVAC in the wet is not that great but you wont find anything better in a similar vintage ferrari without lots of $ sorting things out.

    I'm not trying to hijack the thread or steer you out of a Ferrari as I own 2 mondial cabs and enjoy them both immensely. But I am just saying given the choice of car (and confidence in said car) for a 4 day 700 mile trip I'd grab my lotus keys before the mondials.
     
    eskamobob1 likes this.
  24. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Rookie

    May 9, 2020
    19
    SoCal
    No no! By all means make me suggestions if you dont think a mondial would be a great fit for me (or just have other suggestions anyways). I'm open to pretty well anything I havent experienced before. I played with the idea of everything from a 930 flachbau to a Gallardo or R8 to an NSX or GTR to the Mondial. I pretty well decided I didnt want to go something too new as I dont really like the image they give off, I have had an SC and 993 in the past, so another old porsche doesnt hold a ton of appeal, I seep probabaly 2-3 NSX a day in my area, and the GTR I have to get CARBed to drive in state (probabaly worth the cost but a PITA). The real reason I was drawn to the mondial specifically is because I have lusted after a 308 GT4 in Azure Metallica since HS (and thats gunna be a wait in a half unless I buy the trashed one they want 30k for and paint it myself) and the mondial seems to have quite a number of the features I like about the GT4 (gated manual (never diven one), weird 2+2 mid engine layout (because I like being UnIqUe), lower power but also lower weight, and not something you see basically ever). Any sugestions you have under 100k are more than welcome (though I would prefer to keep it under 50k so I have cash on hand to try and set something up before I can offload cars in case the car I really want ever comes up for auction)

    As for the Esprit, I guess maybe I didnt give it a fair chance? I had honestly written it off as something you can never put miles on just due to parts availability. Hell, there has been an 87 turbo HC listed for like 6 months now for cheap. I just assumed it couldnt possibly meet my needs. I will say though, I dont realy have any desire for the esprits after that generation (not a fan of the looks personally, but then again I like the mondial so my taste may be subject to question ;)). I will give the esprit a good solid look though. Engine never given you any issues? I had thought that is where the main issue was tbh.
     
  25. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    5,903
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    I've had both a GT/4, and my 3.2 Mondial coupe.
    The Mondial wins for your intended purpose.

    Carbs vs. Fuel injection for one.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    I completely get "it's better to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow."

    I've tracked a Viper. Great, crazy fun at the track.
    But on public streets it's just too much. Blip, brake. No fun.
     
    paulchua and Texas Forever like this.

Share This Page