Questions about the Mondial as a daily driver

[QUOTE="eskamobob1, post: 147214706, member: 239045"

As for the Esprit, I guess maybe I didnt give it a fair chance? I had honestly written it off as something you can never put miles on just due to parts availability. Hell, there has been an 87 turbo HC listed for like 6 months now for cheap. I just assumed it couldnt possibly meet my needs. I will say though, I dont realy have any desire for the esprits after that generation (not a fan of the looks personally, but then again I like the mondial so my taste may be subject to question ). I will give the esprit a good solid look though. Engine never given you any issues? I had thought that is where the main issue was tbh.[/QUOTE]

In 10 years my Esprit has only broken down one time. A fuel injector quit about 45 minutes from home. Other than that no issues. I had an 88 and personally wouldn't toch anything older than 94 for what you are asking so if post series 3 doens't do it visually then the point is moot.

Prior to getting my mondial cabs I wanted to find a coupe and sort it out to make it our family trip car. Update tires, cooling, electrics, AC. The mondial is a fantastic road car and well sorted would suit your needs too. Worst thing is if you dont like it sell and buy something else.

 

a well sorted coupe like Dame M's would be a sweet ride.

 

If carbs are the issue, I dont realy have an issue with them. That said, I dont realy plan on getting a GT4 for a while anyways as that is a car i want to keep in a garage. Guess I'll have to keep a good eye out for a QV or 3.2 coupe. Part of me wants to be impulsive and drop an offensively low bid on that one on ebay right now, but I havent been able to get any info on the car from the dealership, so I think I have to just pass.

That really is a bit of a shame tbh. But it is inline with what I have heard researching the turbo HC before:

The engines arent horrid reliability, but they arent great and engine parts are basicaly impossible to find. Everything else asside from interior isnt all that bad being parts bin specials.​

As for the selling if I dont like it, that was kind of my attitude as well. It does mean I will look for a resale color car just so it is easier to move (even though I dont realy like mondi coups in red), but I kind of doubt I will ever get a chance to drive one in ernest without just taking the plunge. I mean, there isnt even one for sale in my area, much the less at a dealer I can get a solid test drive at. Absalute worst case, I loose the sales tax and the money I spent on supplies for a service if I buy right.

That is more and more of what I am thinking as well

 

Thank you for your kind words @eskamobob1 - I'm very happy to help, and glad you're interested in the model.

1) I believe so, it's the only place that leaks for me (and I've driven in a full-on rainstorm!!!)
2) Yup - everybody has their own level of comfort - for me very comfortable car, but after a few hours, I'm longing for a bigger seat, less noise, and ready to let a computer do the shifting.
3) Cool!
B) there are some 't' coupes that come up from time to time - check out my site mondialt.com - tons of info as well as past sales
C) In my opinion, Porsche makes the best cars in the world. However, they are just not cup of tea. The key differentiator to me is beauty and rarity. To me, Porsche is showing up at a party with the same 'look' as every other guy. Ferrari is showing up with a designer haute couture outfit. Both get the job done - but when I'm in a 911/Boxter - I'm guaranteed to see one sooner or later. Do I need to even mention the engine note? Watch videos below if you still need convincing
D) Perfect - very doable proposition - check out my348.com - a lot of the stuff there is applicable to the 't'
E) Not to scare you, but the 15K was from the first year because my car was in VERY BAD SHAPE. I suspect you would not have the same outlay if you get a well-sorted one.

You can track em - here I am in Laguna Seca:


I've been able to not get totally embarrassed on city streets with the best of em' (on track, pray to the car Gods as you get dusted...) (hear what the guy said about the car in the last 5 seconds)

 

1) Thank you for that information. I probabaly wont go cab, but Ill keep an eye on that is I do.
2) I have found a great way to be more accepting of slightly lacking road trip accommodations. If I never actualy get the chance to experience how nice even just a modern minivan is once you break 100 miles in a dead straight line on the 5, I'll never actualy miss having it. But actualy, doing dumb **** like 1400 miles in a beetle in a weekend is just a bit of a privilage of being young and stubborn.

B) TY for the link. That wasnt one I had stumbled across yet. We will see if one comes up in my price/condition range
C) Yah.... I seriously have some "I have to be the only one I see" syndrome going on. Kinda wish I didnt tbh, as, guess what, popular cars are popular for a reason (930s, GT3s, NSX, GTR, etc. All real wonderful cars), but what are you gunna do when you want to scratch that "wierd" itch?
D) I found that site yesterday after asking. Looks real awesome and super info packed. Having that kind of info out there definitely makes me more comfortable with going for a T
E) Mind if I ask if that was doing the work yourself or not? Seems pretty reasonable if not (I mean, hell, full service + tires is what, 8-12k?), but if that was just parts cost I do need to readjust my expectations a bit.

As for the videos, I love them. No way in hell im going to be brave enough to take mine around laguna, but damn was that a cool video. Plus that guy at the end kinda cements the idea I have had for a while (and the reason i dont want a 360). If you have a new ferrari you are just viewed as rich. But if instead you have a classic one? Well now you have taste.

 

Thanks again for the kind words.
1) I suspect 30 years of wear and tear is what caused the issue with the weather stripping - I very confidant somebody can make it weather tight with the right know-how (unfortunately, that is not me)
2) Well said, up to your own level of comfort. The my worst trip I can remember was driving an S2000 from LA to SF on the I5. That was miserable. My wife still remembers that trip of unhappiness.
B) Keep a lookout - these are unloved cars, so they eventually come out of the woodwork for better or worse.
C) I had a gen 1 NSX, that only got appreciation from car guys, which is 5, maybe 10 percent of the population. Most everybody stares in appreciation with the prancing horse. If you're an introvert, that's not a good thing.
D) Glad it helped!
E) Most of the work I have friends that have the equipment and know-how to work on. That said, I think given enough time, much of the work can be learned by a determined individual.

I appreciate the comments on the videos. The car is a lot of fun, and for the right person, the perfect car. Check out the 456 too - it's a cruiser, and I love mine as well. I plan to both as long as God allows me too.

 

Currently, I have an '88 Mondial cab, an '04 996 Turbo, "84 928S, and a '68 cougar for "fun" cars. In driving season, for everyday driving and long road trips, hands down I take the 928. There is no greater vintage GT for reliably gobbling up miles in comfort.

 

I've been enjoying this thread b/c I have many of the same questions as you. And like you I have been following the brown qv on Ebay: I love the looks of that one. On the other hand, absent any information about the condition or history, I'm assuming it's an absolute money pit. I was actually the high bidder the last few times, knowing that 20K would be under their reserve. If they want more than that for it, they'll have to answer some basic questions or at least post some photos of the underside.

 

Interesting read and I will be honest as my intention was also to use it as a daily. My demand was that it simply should not break down soon or at least not more then once a year.

So… You will love it and at sometimes you want to set it on fire. Which ever Mondial you buy with the intention to run it daily you will need to invest precaution maintenance. For example rebuild your Master Cylinder because at some point the internal rubbers will be shot. The center cooling hoses and a better radiator. An Uprated fusebox + New relais from Guido here on Fchat as the original delaminates because of the heat and age. etc. etc

Dispite my efforts I can tell you that an older Ferrari is simple not the best choice for a daily. Yes, it was reliable and it broke down 3 times and then you realise it is not the pain of breaking down, but obtaining parts in a timely manner… In a few occasions I needed to wait for 3 weeks. Come to the conclusion I need more parts after taking the affect part apart and you will wait again.

I abanded my plan to use it as a daily also because of the heavy clutch and steering in Amsterdam. However, I can now say after 8 years and a couple of road trips through Europe that my Mondial is more reliable then when I owned it the first 3 years . So I might change my mind again... ...and I learned to have parts on the shelf.

The 360 is the better choice and the F430 above the 360.

Good luck in finding one if you are up for it. They are great fun and I am sure you will not regret the experience with or without breaking down

 

Re-grease your wheel bearing also btw

 

I look at the way I use my current daily driver (LX470) and can't imagine using the Mondial in the same manner. However, with that said, the prior owner of my Mondial put close to 15K miles on it in 3 years. I have all of the receipts from their ownership and it doesn't appear that there was a ton of work required during that period. If I were living in Coastal California (where the car had been), I may be more willing to use it as a daily driver. Here in Texas, the heat would brutalize a car like this that was left outside. I'm more concerned about the degradation of the car by using it on a daily basis here than about its actual reliability. Keep in mind that there are many parts on these that are NLA or difficult to find. Especially when you compare them to the older 911s that you've had in the past. I'd personally prefer to use a more common vehicle for the daily duties (one with great reliability and strong-performing A/C) and save the Mondial for fun drives.

2cam

 

Hello Davem,
Might that be the F40 wheels at Image ??
If so, what sizes and offset are you using?
Best,
Mondi Cab

 

Compomotive TS-17. Believe they are 17x8 and 17x9

The offsets were designed around the ABS for later 328s and Mondials

 

Thanks Davem !
They are looking good on it.

 

So true, my Mondial is the 'slowest' car in my collection, but it's the most fun by far.

Most roller coasters average below 50 mph full circuit. Commercial planes travel at 500 mph.

Which is more thrilling/fun?

When I'm in the Tesla, I feel like being in a plane, the Mondial? The coaster....

Believe me, friends, I've driven many modern Ferrari. While they will 'shame' the Mondial performance-wise, doesn't matter because you'll be smiling all the way 'back' there.

Not knocking new Ferrari, but much of the driving is done by computer and while I can appreciate the refinement, you lose the 'go kart' minimalism of the 80's era Ferrari.

It's all subjective feel I'm talking about, so I respect folks that don't care for the NVH.

When I need to haul a group, I take the Van
When I need to get to work, I take either Tesla
When I need to get to take a long trip - I take the Maserati
When I need to take a short/medium trip - I take the 456
When I need to feel alive?

The Mondial.

Surprised? A 'biased' owner talking from rosa tinted cool-aid stained glasses?

Why then did Car and Driver say this about the Mondial?

I quote:
"The Formula 1 Convertible...provides only a taste of the Grand Prix experience. But it's a stronger flavor than almost any other car and provide."

Car and Driver got paid off obviously, the same way I guess Road and Track got 'paid off' when they said:

I quote:
"Driven fast or slow, the Mondial is exhilarating (period)"

Ah, What does Car and Driver or Road and Track know? What do the boys at Motortrend have to say?

"...when it's time to be cool and let everyone know your stuff is together, only the Ferrari (Mondial) will do."

Conspiracy!!! The 'big 3' automotive journals are in cahoots! - let's visit the distant #4 magazine, they must have the integrity to 'speak truth to reason.'

Automobile Magazine said
"To me, it's the most desirable Ferrari this side of an F40"

What?

I said it once, and I'll say it again, the Mondial is the vintage exotic world's best-kept secret. (Thank you click bait 'journalists?' that quote bad things said about the US-Cali-EPA spec Mondial 8 (all 147 of them) and apply to the other 6,000 Mondials....)

 

Did someone say 360? The Mondial's chassis bits were good enough to be used in the 360? Naw.

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The professional automotive journalist saying he prefers the Mondial over the Maserati, Lambo, and GT4?

Noooo....I must have photoshopped this. Mondial is the worst car of all time, don't cha know?!

 

True that! even the engine/motor block That means the engine is rock solid!

 

1) hahaha. Fair enough. Ill probabaly still stay away from cabs just for the peace of mind, but its good info to have
2) Yah. My first time doing that drive was in a buddies ford festiva with no rear window. That was a.... trying experience.

B) Will do. Im certainly still open to T's, I just dont think im probably willing to pay a premium over a QV or 3.2 given the added maintenance issues.
C) Funnily enough, it has nothing to do with how other people view or talk about that car for me. I just dont want to see another one on the road. For example, I have wanted an omni GLH-S for a long time and I seriously doubt even most car guys will care about it at all, but it still tickles my fancy.
E) Got it. I will re adjust my expectations a bit.

Im sorry if I didnt comunicate it well. Im not actualy looking for a GT car. Im just need the car to be able to be used as one 3-5 times a year. 99% of the driving will be back roads and general cruising.

Haha. I actually tried to make the exact same bid yesterday but my connection timed out so it didnt go in time. I tried contacting the seller a while back and got some records from 2012 about the car not running right and then subsequently passing smog, but the underside pics are petty non-existant. That combined with the bit of rust around the drive side tail light lead me to believe it probably isnt the best under there.... I did request some more info so we will see though. Ultimately im not super hot on the color, but I do prefer it to red at least. I really want one in that deep yellow they had for a while, or maybe even a black cab, but only so much you can do if you dont want to wait 5 years for a spec you want without caring about the mechanicals.

You make a good point about parts availability. I had the same issues on my first project car back in HS (86 MR2). Im not all the concerned about waiting for parts when needed as I do have other cars, but I will have to make a note of NLA parts for sure. As for your statements about readability, that is nice to hear. I know Italian electrics can be pretty rough to diagnose, but if its still driving fine I have plenty of time to do that. Ultimately, I think at this point I'm comfortable enough to give it a shot. Now I just have to find the right one.

Will do! My plan for any car I get that doesn't have proof of service is to do

1) Belts
2) Fluids
3) All fuel lines
4) Grease complete chassis
5) Tires

Pricing it out, looks like thats gunna be about 4k in parts (including non-metric wheels for better tires). Anything else I should plan on immediate service wise?

Im sorry if it was miscomunicated. I am not looking to use the mondial as a true daily. I work 4 days a week with a real standard traffic commute that I plan to continue using my beetle for (been my daily driver since I bought it as my first car over a decade ago, and at this point its kind of a challenge to keep that going). The other 3 days a week I work at a different location that is about 15 miles out back roads that I drive at way off traffic hours. That is the commute I want the mondial for. I do also want to be able to take it to the store and do random normal things in it as well if I desire to, but that wont be its main purpose. You do make a good point about puttin miles on a car with so man NLA parts, but from what I have seen, those parts are mostly outside of the drive train. Is that correct? As far as fixing electrics, plastics, switch gear, etc, Im fairly confidant in my skills. Unless there is a common part in the drive line that breaks and is NLA, I will have to keep the parts availability in mind, but I'm not deterred from the car as a whole.

You make some good points, but I have a counter. Jeremy clarkson said it was **** and he is auto god. Lol, but really. I wanted a 308 for quite a while but speaking with an aquantience of mine that had both a 308 and mondial QV new, he petty well kept saying that the 308 is far prettier and does corner a bit better, but the mondial is a better overall car by far. Thats what actually got me considering them in the first place.

 

Indeed he did, the question you have to ask though is which model? If I said the Supra is poop. One needs to clarify my proclamation.

What do I mean? The Mk1? Mk3? Twin Turbo? Which Supra?

That's mistake #1 folk make with the Mondial. There are 8 distinct variants (15 if you count geo differences in Tune) for a Ferrari Mondial.

I alluded to this in my previous post. Dig a bit deeper and find out which "Mondial' he was referring to specifically when he made this statement. (I already know which one - but let me give you some homework.)

Clarkson has been known for being hyperbolic and 'taking things back'

Case in point? He said the 348 was amazing in one breath, then said it was poop in another. Then admitting to lying.

Will the 'real Clarkson' please stand up?

Don't forget Clarkson also said the Ferrari F50 is the worst Ferrari of all time...(as in worst than a Mondial too)

exaggerate much?

 

Let’s talk Mondial handling. I had a 77 308GTB that handled like a go cart. It never felt tail heavy or threatened to swap ends. My Mondial which I’m still sorting feels just the opposite in spirited cornering. I’m hoping once I finish the suspension bushings and get a good 4 wheel alignment it’ll be more like the GTB. After all it has a longer wheelbase and isn’t that much heavier. Am I hoping too much?

 

Hm, very odd. Which model do you have? I never had complaints handling my 't' - in fact, I've thanked the engineers in Maranello many times to get me out of some hairy situations.

When the Mondial 8 came out - every reviewer said it was the best handling Ferrari ever, especially compared to the 308. I don't have an '8', so I can't verify myself and fully admit this is foolish 'magazine' racing.

I would assume if the reviewers were not lying, the subsequent QV, 3.2, and t only improved upon the very dynamics that had reviewers showering praise on the handling of the 8 over the 308.

 

My FIL who is also an engineer, and a car guy lives on 0-60 times.
And uh how many times to you drive like this in the real world. My Mondial is quick.....the gear

Mines fine, just once in spirited driving did the end get loose......but that was on ancient tires.
It was fun, and recovery was easy.
Since then I also rebuilt the Konis and swapped out all the bushings.

Also autocrossed the GT/4 on old tires, and a shot suspension!

Basically just drifting.....wish I had a video!

 

Would you mind sharing the information you get? -- I'm curious. Of course, if you decide to bid on the car in earnest I'll promise not to get into a bidding war with you
It's a shame that the owner decided to have this shop sell the car for them. If you google the Gateway Classics (or whatever it is called) you'll find that the reviews aren't exactly glowing. I'd be leery of buying a Toyota from them, let alone a vintage Ferrari.

 

I owned a 1985 Mondial 3.0 QV a few years ago. It was a terrific daily driver/work car for me. Day trips were fun and I always drove it home.

It was a coupe which I preferred for looks and fewer issues, including water/rain issues and wind noise.

It is easy to work on the mechanicals, as well as the electrical components. It has a couple ecm/computers, but basically, electro-mechanical, and easy to trouble shoot. About all the known maintenance or repair issues are on FC or webnet.

I had a 550 and currently 456M GTA and sometimes I think the Mondial was the best driver and best value.

I would rather have a pre "T", just because I think the maintenance is more for the DIY type. The 3.0 has belt replacement on one side and clutch on the other side, both easy to access.

The A/C is marginal above 90 degrees, at best. If you leave the car in the sun all day, it is likely the A/C will never catch up with the hot interior. Mornings are good. I would also remove the center dash A/C vent to get more cool air when it was real hot.

I never had an engine overheating problem in Texas and mine had the single radiator fan. A second radiator fan can be easily added if it is an issue.

Common issues are slow window operation, slow shifting 1-2 when cold, hot fuse box connectors, metric wheels/tires, hood bonnet air struts fade, sun-roof might not close tight enough so keep the drains open.

There are a lot of interchange parts listed on FC, including a lot of German/BMW/Mercedes parts and switches.

I had to replace the clutch slave cylinder, clean ignition switch contacts, replace A/C compressor and hoses, replace radio, remove roof interior panel to find an electrical short (the dome light wire was smashed/shorted under a screw), replace some interior switches, replace ignition flywheel sensors (used Ducati motorcycle sensors),

I would be happy to have another Mondial.

I hope you have the opportunity to buy one soon.

 

All good comments so far. I have had a '85 Mondial QV Cab for the past two years. It is a well-sorted car. The previous two owners spend $30K on various items and I have the receipts. I might add, even with the coupe, the engine compartment could be exposed to some rain based on the cover design (needed for heat dissipation). I wouldn't want the car parked in a straight down torrential downpour. When driving in rain it might not be too bad. I have read that when some owners wash these cars they will put a tarp over the engine temporarily. Same for up front- there is a plastic battery cover, and I have it but it's not installed in the car. My car is kept in the garage and not driven in rain. If the car was driven in rain and missing the battery cover, the battery could get wet. On my cab I think there would be a chance of a little rain getting in where the side windows meet. I have the new B pillar rubber pieces and still there are small openings. The AC in my car was recharged with R-12 and when leaving from the garage it is ice cold. It is fine for a 1.5 to 2 hour drive and then parking back in the garage. If a cab with a black top was sitting in the sun for hours, I agree it could be tough for the AC to get caught up. Mine seems to be working very well so I don't want to discuss it and jinx it. I hadn't driven a Mondial or any Ferrari for that matter prior to purchasing it from a private seller who was on ferrarichat. It has been a great car and I felt right at home during my first drive. I was also first looking at a "t", then a 3.2, and then I decided on the QV model because IMO the black bumpers give it more of a classic look. Of course people have had their QV bumpers painted body color professionally, or even installed the 3.2 front and rear pieces. I don't think twice regarding selecting the QV model.