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Questions from a first time Mondial owner

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by hetek, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    I bought my first Ferrari last week - a 1985 Mondial Quattrovalvole Cabriolet. I have a owners/Shop manual on order but was wondering if I could ask a few questions before it arrives. I'll try to be brief.

    I have several warning lights on the console that are lit. One is the "Engine Oil" light. I checked the stick/sensor and found the oil level about one inch up on the spiral metal flex part. This looks way too high. I see the Min mark but no Max mark. My solution is to drain the oil and put in the correct amount. Can anyone tell me how much? And why does the oil light come on when it's this much overfilled? Any tricks or cures?

    The other question relates to drivability. It seems that I have to "drive it like I stole it" to keep the plugs from fouling. Revs above 2k at all times, except idle. If it fouls, it needs a high rev run to clear. Sound normal or am I in need of a serious tune-up?

    Third, I turn the battery switch off at night to prevent battery drain and to keep the little clicks and buzzes quiet. I read that this also resets the computer. Is this not a good idea? And since I have already reset it, now what?

    Last - How do you reset the "Maintenance Due" light?

    Oh, and did I mention I need a new windshield? Any sources on Long Island, NY?

    Thanks for reading. I know I have some things to sort out but every used car has something that need to get done.
     
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  3. AVFIN

    AVFIN Karting

    Jun 5, 2005
    67
    Watchung NJ
    Full Name:
    Anthony Villanova
    When was the last major service done? DO you have the service records from previous owners?
     
  4. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Major service was done in Feb, 2005 and I have documentation. Re Oil: My theory is that the previous owner saw the engine oil light and put in a quart to be safe, when it was a defective sensor all along.

    Only problem I was aware of was the windshield, which was negotiated in price. I also was TOO careful driving on my test drive and bogged the engine a couple of times - and fouled the plugs. The owner cleared it out OK. The car is tight and pulls strong with no unusual noises. I've taken the car for a few drives since with no problems (once I learned how to drive) but now it's fouling out again just pulling the car in and out of my garage. I also fear it will do the same while parallel parking or some other slow speed maneuver. Bottom line: I feel I have a 50/50 shot at driving it now with no problems cropping up.

    Whaddayathink? How much oil to fill with and do you think a good FI tune-up? And speaking of windshields...
     
  5. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    24,986
    E ' ' '/ F
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    Dindu Nuffin
    There's definitely something wrong with your tuning if the car is fouling the plugs. The K-jet should not be doing that. Check to make sure you have the correct plugs in the car. FWIW, any good German car place can adjust the injection if they have a couple of old-school guys -- the CIS was used in Audis, VWs, and I think the Mercedes cars.
     
  6. AVFIN

    AVFIN Karting

    Jun 5, 2005
    67
    Watchung NJ
    Full Name:
    Anthony Villanova
    That is good advice. Something is not right with the plugs or the injection. ALso the mixture could be rich. I believe the manual is 9 quarts of oil. As far as the windshield I would think any glass shop that does them could help you. Those cars are notorious for electric problems although my Mondial is pretty accurate with the warning lights so don't discount it as a short just yet.
     
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  8. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Thanks guys-

    I've owned 21 cars in the past and have wrenched on every one of 'em. That, and about 8 boats, too. Some were even frame-off restorations. This Ferrari thing is new to me - perhaps that's one thing I like about it - the challenge. But, I'd feel much better if I could get in, turn the key, hear that wonderful engine sound and go off on my typical Sunday drive. That's what I bought it for.

    I know an ace FI guy. Maybe I'll give him a crack at it. If I had to call it I would say rich mixture too. Runs great when your right foot puts in the request for all that gas but runs crappy when it doesn't. Know what I mean?

    Windshields, I'm hearing, are a Ferrari only item. No aftermarket sources (PPG, etc.) are available. Costs about a grand +/-, plus shipping and installation.

    I can't wait for the manuals to arrive so I can work out a few bugs. I'm going to start by removing the 1985 alarm system and the hard-wired radar detector. That should keep me busy for now.
     
  9. Mondialmike

    Mondialmike Karting

    Mar 12, 2005
    217
    London
    Full Name:
    Mike Hunnisett
    Just had my windscreen, framework & mirror replaced by Rosso Corsa......... £2700. Your correct the only option is for an OEM item as none of the screen makers make one (I tried many).

    I have a Mondial 8 and its Oil warning light is on all the time, the oil level is spot on so I'm about to replace the oil pressure switch.
     
  10. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    1. Congrats on the car, welcome to Ferrari ownership.

    2. On the oil, read the manual on how to check it. I can't remember off the top of my head, but there is a trick on some of them to check it warm, several minutes after the car has been shut off. When in doubt, go to the book.

    3. On the FI, others are right, something is screwy, get it checked.

    4. On the windshield, welcome to Ferrari ownership. :)
     
  11. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Thanks guys-

    Mondialmike- I'm trying not to think about the exchange rate/conversion between English Pounds and US Dollars. Ouch. But, again, I didn't expect cheap.

    I just checked the USPS Tracking System online (United States Postal Service for you, Mondialmike in the UK). It says that my owners manual and shop manuals were delivered this morning. They should be sitting on my front porch when I get home.

    Re: the Oil level question: You mentioned your light is on all the time, also. If I find anything with mine I'll be sure to post a fix you can try too.

    Judge4re - "Welcome to Ferrari ownership". Well said!
     
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  13. AVFIN

    AVFIN Karting

    Jun 5, 2005
    67
    Watchung NJ
    Full Name:
    Anthony Villanova
    Hetek, when checking the oil the book says to wait 15 minutes after engine is shut off to check level. The dipstick is a little weird i use a paper towel to see the oil on the stick.

    Welcome to F car ownership, once it gets in your system you can't shake it.
     
  14. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,000
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Pretty sure the Mondial's warning light is for oil pressure, not depth. My 308 QV has the same engine, but no oil warning light. Can't remember if the Mondial has an oil pressure gauge, but if so, I'd trust it more than the light.


    Oil llevel should be checked about 15 minuites after shutting the engine off. If you leave it overnight, it'll rise about another 3/4" to 1" as oil slowly trickles out of the engine.
     
  15. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Thanks for the welcome-

    I browsed the manual this evening and found the answer to several of my questions: How to reset the service due light (a small button), type oil (10w-50) and capacity (10L). The FI I'm still fuzzy on. At least the Bosch K-Jetronic is a popular system and has been around awhile.

    I have both an oil pressure gauge AND an oil level idiot light (and an oil temp gauge, too). The light seems to trigger from a sensor on the end of the dipstick. I'm assuming that when the sensor is "dry", it triggers a low oil condition which lights the idiot light. This would also explain what the wire connectors are for at the top of the dipstick, itself. Maybe it just needs a good cleaning in kerosene.

    The manual I have (on CD ROM) is pretty good but doesn't cover such things as electrical troubleshooting (so I can properly test the dipstick sensor, among other things) or FI troubleshooting (although that may be a book all its own).

    Does anyone know where I can buy the genuine Ferrari Workshop manuals that cover everything from A to Z? I plan on doing the next "major" on it myself so these manuals will be a worthy investment - and I fear an equally expensive one.

    Anyone know a good source for the books?
     
  16. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    The workshop manual is worth it, but assumes you know mechanical fundamentals. Well worth the investment. Check with your local dealer or Ferrari UK (a sponsor here) to get a copy. Mine came off of eBay and I think I spend ~$70 for the book.
     
  17. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,192
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    Hetek,

    There is a separate wiring manual for the Mondial which may be what you need. Also, I've found that while the shop manual is helpful, the parts manual (many detailed exploded diagrams) is really the key to gaining an overall understanding of the various systems (brakes, engine/FI/ignition, wiring, etc.) I have an extra parts manual available - shoot me an email at cliffbeer@hotmail.com if interested.

    Your car should't be fouling the plugs. I'd start with the warm up regulator (there is an ohms resistance test for this item), and, at the same time replace the plugs, plug wires, plug extenders and inspect the caps and rotors. Next would be to run a compression and leak down test and also monitor oil consumption - could be oil running down the valve guides or past the rings that is fouling your plugs, not an overly rich mixture.

    Regarding the various warning lights, first check the fuse box - this is a notorious weak point of the Mondials with frequent corrosion causing all kinds of electrical gremlins. Next, worthwhile cleaning all the ground connections you can find in the engine bay - there are numerous, including a large engine ground - as weak or faulty ground can cause similar strange guage/light readings. Good luck and hang in there with the tinkering, take it step by step - the Mondial cab is a wonderful car!
     
  18. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,000
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Sorry, this is a Ferrari, not a Chevy. Service was intended to be done by factory trained dealer techs who just needed to look up details, not general procedures. There are only 4 or 5 Mondial manuals:

    Owners
    Workshop
    Parts
    Electrical

    I believe there's a general 308 family CIS manual, but the best source of CIS info is:

    Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management - by Charles O. Probst
    Don't waste your money on:
    How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection
    by Ben Watson
    It's poorly written & drawings are terrible.

    Also recommend:
    Gasoline Fuel-Injection System K-Jetronic: Technical Instruction 96/97
    by Robert Bosch
    Bosch used it to train dealer techs on the system.

    Good intro to the K-Jet system:
    http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm
     
  19. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Thanks guys-

    I've always have had good luck using the factory manuals in the past. They are specifically written for the automotive technician (no more "mechanics") to use and have troubleshooting flow charts, which I have found extermely helpful. Chiltons and Haynes probably wouldn't even consider making a shop manual for a Ferrari. Like you said - it ain't no Chevy.

    I have the Owners/technical manual on CD ROM. I hear that Ferrari has a parts manual download available, but am still waiting to hear from them. I'll get the others too. The more info, the better.
     
  20. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    It sounds like your car may be running on the "limp home" mode of the FI. While the engine is running, you may want to pull electrical plug on frequency valve -- if there is no change in the sound of the car running then system is not working. If there is a change in running then system "may" be working correctly.
    There must be soemthing wrong, the FI cars generally run pretty clean. The Probst book recommended by Verell is a great source.

    A lot of the manuals are available for free from either Ferrari Owners site or other internet sources.

    Mark
     
  21. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
    Montreal Qc, Canada
    Full Name:
    JScar
    Any one willing to take a stab at the Maintenence light, I have the same issue.
     
  22. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman

    No, the Mondial has more bells and whistles than a 308. There is an oil pressure guage with it's own low pressure warning light integrated into the corner of the guage. There is also a sensor on the dipstick that measures oil level. You must insert the dipstick into the engine, then connect a small connector to the top of the dipstick.

    What I do not recall is if the general "oil warning" light is illuminated by both oil pressure and level, or just level. I'll check that this afternoon. Needless to say, it is most likely that you have a defective oil level sensor in the dipstick, or you do not have the dipstick connector hooked up.

    Birdman
     
  23. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    22,542
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    Reading the title of the thread got me thinking... Are the any multiple Mondial owners? It tends to be more of an introductory model that gets people into Ferrari - they seem to move around from the Mondial after having one.


    Zertec is the only 2-time Mondial owner I can think of off the top of my head.
     
  24. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    both T cabs..hated them, then got one and then fell in love...but then again I live in NYC and theMondial is the perfect car for my masochistic life
     
  25. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    There is a slot in the warehouse reserved for a QV cab, but only after I move back stateside and buy a new house. Maybe next year unless a nice TR shows up next.

    Soon...
     
  26. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    I just went out to the garage and confirmed that the "engine oil" light on the center console only comes on as a function of the oil level sensor, not the oil pressure. The oil pressure warning light is completely seperate, located in the oil pressure guage.

    Birdman
     
  27. geekstreet

    geekstreet Karting

    Feb 7, 2005
    220
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Cam
    Ah, where IS this small button exactly? I had assumed (wrongly) the light was reset via the electronic diagnostic plug in the engine-bay (ie: Ferrari shop only).

    Interestingly I couldn't find any ref to the console multi-warning-light unit (or any of the sensors it relies on) in any of the electrical circuit diags!
     
  28. 4rebob

    4rebob Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    173
    Alaska
    Full Name:
    Robert Taylor

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