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Real world advice - speeding violation via camera in Scottsdale

Discussion in 'Arizona & New Mexico' started by Zanny1, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    576
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
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    Mike
    Just moved to Fountain Hills, and wouldn't you know it.... got a speeding violation in my wife's SUV in Scottsdale. 57 in a 45. Read several posts here about this, many saying toss the ticket.... others saying pay the ticket (even though 50% of the proceeds go to a private company). Some say it doesn't appear on your driving record, some say it does, some say a warrant will be issued if you don't pay, some say a process server must serve you in person for the violation to be valid. Seems like there are quite a few differing opinions.
    I don't object to paying the state for the violation, however I do object to a private company using these photo tickets as a tool to generate income at the expense of the taxpayer. And the photo shows 3 cars all traveling as a group but mine in the center, which received the ticket.
    Real world experience only, please.
     
  2. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Rookie
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    Aug 8, 2009
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    Mark Jones
    Every state and jurisdiction has different laws.

    Drop by the local PD, don’t call, and ask there.

    or study whatever jurisdiction sent you the ticket to see what laws control.
     
  3. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    Had the same situation with a DC speed camera ticket a few years ago. Contested it and, basically, the magistrate said that they could not definitely determine which car triggered the photo and dismissed the case in my favor.
     
  4. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    I am not dispensing legal advice here....

    There is no disputing which car was going that fast. The cameras are sophisticated to tell them apart and it knows how fast each is going.
    There is no disputing the private company getting to use the tickets as a tool to generate income. They are contracted and this fight was done over a decade ago. Complete dead end. The judge will just tell you, we are not discussing the company in question your ticket was given legally and you broke the law by speeding. Pay up. Thats pretty much exactly how thats going to go.

    If you don't like it and don't want to pay. They MIGHT send you the ticket in the mail. MIGHT. They don't always. Then when the ticket comes, many people throw it away because it is not an official form of service. They must serve you. This is all true. You will not have a warrant for your arrest for not paying. An officer of the court must serve you. That is either the police officer must hand you the citation and then they MAKE YOU SIGN FOR RECEIPT not for guilt or innocence. But since they didn't do that they must send a server. MOST of the time they don't serve you. If they do... well then you will have to pay the added cost for the server and your fine. No biggie. The server typically just goes to your house. Thats it. They try once maybe twice and move on.

    So... either just pay it and take it.

    Or...

    play the game.
     
  5. hmfic1

    hmfic1 Karting
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    Aug 15, 2011
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    Jerry
    real world, I have had two different tickets sent to me in the mail, same thing, speed. if you just moved, is your car registered to your new address or old? If you ignore it, all they can do is serve you, if they find you. They have 90 days to serve you, then gone. If you pay the ticket, it will go on your record, or you can do the school.
     
  6. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
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    Mike
    Thanks to all for replies.
    Did a little more research on line.
    In Scottsdale, historical data shows they will serve you. They can even come to your residence on 3 separate occasions and leave the serving documents on your doorstep the 4th time. Additional cost is $50. It appears these fools have got all the bases covered from a financial standpoint.
    So yes, it looks like I gotta pay up and accept an increase in my insurance rates.
     
  7. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    ^^^. If you were speeding and guilty, then pay the ticket. If you weren't speeding, I'd protest on the technicality of 3 cars in the photo and how are they going to prove which car triggered the photo? Put the burden of proof on them.
     
  8. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2013
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    I find this interesting because we don't have speed or red light cameras in Massachusetts. However, I will be driving in Scottsdale when I attend the FCA Annual Experience.

    Here a car cannot speed, only a person can be operating a car that speeds. So the ticket must be written on the person, not the car. So in Scottsdale they apparently know the car that was speeding, but how to they know the person who was speeding? Or does that not matter and the person to whom the car is registered is responsible?

    Now for those old timers like me who watched Columbo on TV, there was an episode starring Dabney Coleman as the murderer. He used a speeding camera to place him miles away from the murder which he committed. He had his secretary speed past the camera (or it may have been a red light camera, I don't remember) wearing a picture of his face over hers. So he contended it could not have been him since he was photographed at an intersection miles away at the exact time of the murder.

    So in Scottsdale, do they photograph your face so that you can't deny it was you driving the car? And is it possible to even contest the ticket or are you automatically guilty?

    BTW, Dabney got caught because the picture didn't have shadows of his nose since (it was a flat photograph) like all the other speeders who were caught on the camera at the same time. :D
     
  9. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
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    Yes they photograph your face and the vehicle from the front and rear.
    One could challenge if the driver was the owner, but that opens up an entire list of possibilities in terms of contesting the ticket. The Judge has the option to take the PD's word that the "face pictured matches the face on the drivers license".
    Many of the cameras are located at a major intersection, with small "warning" signs placed just before the ticket cameras. It's total ******** but it is what it is. Be forewarned. Scottsdale has the largest number of ticket cameras in the greater Phoenix area.
     
  10. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula 3
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    So I know people in Phoenix who use a different family member’s address to register their cars. In some cases, the address they use is in a gated neighborhood. Additionally, they drive with the sun visor positioned in such a way that their face is partially obscured. They speed with total impunity. Not advocating these techniques, just presenting facts.
     
  11. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    .

    Leaving documents in your doorstep is not an official form of service. Also I've never had Scottsdale try more than twice. If they don't get you in 2 consecutive days they move on typically. It sounds scarier than it is.

    Again. If you are guilty pay it and don't worry or play the game
     
  12. willrace

    willrace F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    It's such a shame when a bunch of kids and their paintball war get of hand around cameras and such....... ;)
     
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  13. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2013
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    When you drive through Italy you see many speed camera boxes that are spray painted. I'm sure some of that paint covers the small glass windows that house the cameras.
     
  14. NYC Fred

    NYC Fred Formula Junior

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  15. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    I received the same situation a few years ago and called a lawyer. I suggest you get real legal advice that is current.

    The lawyer asked if the notice was sent by First Class mail and I confirmed. That is not a legal way to serve anyone and will not stand up in court.

    The lawyer continued saying that the notice directs you to use one of the two "ways" to check on your status using a ID number they provide;either by Phone or by Website. The lawyer said this is "bait", will automatically confirm to police that you have been served and advised me not to do it.

    These shady tactics of incorrectly serving are only to save a few dollars, easily pointing out that this is a money grab and has nothing top do with the spirit of safety on the road. They never followed up with serving, they never further contacted me and since then I have registering multiple cars without incident or ticket payment.

    I would consider the morality of this question very seriously "Do you want the police to be able to disregard the legal process when serving you?"

    Personally, I do not like this type of cavalier attitude to disregard Due Process by the police and was ready to lawyer up at multiples of what the ticket cost, but that is just me.



    PS - The lawyer also said that out of State driver's licenses are not persued by the local Police here - they drop chasing the ticket
     
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  16. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
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    My thoughts exactly. I will roll the dice and see if I get served. Will follow up in January when the 90 day window closes.
     
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  17. VividRacing

    VividRacing F1 Rookie
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    Aug 23, 2005
    3,083
    Gilbert, AZ
    Have gotten a few over the years in Scottsdale. Have never been served. You can actually follow the court process via their website and see what stage they're at with your ticket and likely see if a process server has been dispatched on your case. Knock on wood, in 6 years my wife and I have never responded or paid them and we've never been served.

    If you're truly concerned and you don't want it on your record, use your annual driving school to get around it. That will probably cost you more, but it won't go on your record. You only get one a year though, so keep that in mind in case another ticket comes along.

    -James
     
  18. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
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    Mike
    From previous post:
    "The lawyer continued saying that the notice directs you to use one of the two "ways" to check on your status using a ID number they provide;either by Phone or by Website. The lawyer said this is "bait", will automatically confirm to police that you have been served and advised me not to do it."

    Vivid racing: Is this what you did? Thanks for the reply.
     
  19. VividRacing

    VividRacing F1 Rookie
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    Aug 23, 2005
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    Gilbert, AZ
    No, that information is accurate. If you visit the website on the ticket and view it, they'll know you've received it. I was able to pull up the actual case by searching my name in the court records and track it step by step as various requests were processed including when it was dismissed.

    -James
     
  20. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula Junior
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    Nice work!
     
  21. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    May 16, 2004
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    Here in Gilbert, south of Scottsdale, there are several photo camera's in the school areas, where the speed limits are reduced during school hours. Fortunately i never got a ticket, they do post signs that I know of.

    Mike, lets us know how it goes - in case we need to follow some day!
     
  22. WilyB

    WilyB Formula 3
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    Feb 23, 2007
    2,156
    AZ
    Welcome to Fountain Hills, a lovely place. Check your speed on N. Saguaro Blvd, particularly driving north from Shea towards the Fountain: there is very often a speed trap near the Saddle Bronc Grill.
     
  23. stardoc

    stardoc Formula Junior

    May 5, 2005
    636
    The big oven
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    K RA
    Do not toss the ticket. If the car is registered under your wife's name, then your wife or who ever owns the car can send sign the back of the ticket when mailed to your house stating that they do not recognize the driver in the photo. There are some in Az from what I understand that daily drive a car registered under their spouse's name for that reason exactly.
     
  24. TomAZ

    TomAZ Karting

    Jun 3, 2019
    62
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    Thomas Ellis
    I live in Fountain Hills as well!! I got a ticket on the Rez by Salt River police - they only fined me $110 no points or traffic school. They said I could either go through the federal system or the Indian courts! Obvious choice. 58 in a 45

    There are sheriffs everywhere I’ve noticed - hidden real well. Let me know which intersection and outcome of your violation!!

    Have a good day
     
  25. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    576
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
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    Mike
    Location was intersection of Frank Lloyd Wright and Scottsdale Road heading west. 2 small signs just east of the intersection and the camera located just west of the lights.
    Yes one needs to be careful on Saguaro although I've heard that, in general, they won't stop you going 45 MPH or less in the posted 35 MPH zone.
    Thanks for the tip about driving on the Rez. I see highway patrol and Tribal cops all the time on the B-line.
    Drop dead date for getting served is January 1st, so will post follow-up at that time.
     

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