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Rebuild rear brake calipers

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Arvid, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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    The rear calipers are in need of a rebuild with pistons and seals. A complete kit with all parts for both calipers would cost me $790 (£470) not incl. shipping. This is way over the top for these simple parts...

    I'm sure these calipers were used on other cars,probably a few BMW's and Porsche. Are they Brembo or ATE ? Does any of you know which other cars used the same calipers. I'm certain I can find these parts a lot cheaper if I know what other cars used the same parts...

    Any comments would be great :)
     
  2. GT Jones

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    #2 GT Jones, Jun 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. Arvid

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    It seems these calipers,probably in a narrower version,were used as front brakes on BMW 1802 & 2002 (versions with 4-pot calipers) and some models Audi 100/VW K70. The parts are nevertheless the same.

    That narrows the search :)

    Frenkit in Spain have all the parts needed.

    Seals and gaskets : 234009
    Pistons : 342901
    Complete kit : 234911
     
  4. kliko312

    kliko312 Karting

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  5. Arvid

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    Confusing data here.... Ferrari400parts.com has 34mm pistons for rear caliper and Superformance has 27mm for same caliper/car.

    I allways thought these were 34mm ??
     
  6. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    I got a warning that Ferrari400parts appears to contain malware & that visiting this site may harm your computer, anybody else get this warning :confused:
    The warning didn't show up until I was checking out.
    Shows it listed under "gclabrelscon.net"
     
  7. erwin123

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  8. Arvid

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    I found a rebuild kit on ebay for $60 for both calipers. Just hoping I don't need to change the pistons. Hope a fine sanding of the surface will do the trick :)
     
  9. Arvid

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    #9 Arvid, Sep 19, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
    Just did both rear calipers with great result. Parts are the same as BMW 1602-1802-2002 with 4-piston ATE calipers. Easily obtainable all over ebay etc. :)

    Moving towards the front which is also an easy-to-find BMW part for 2002 Tii and old 6 & 7 series.
     
  10. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Arvid,

    Excellent work! Can you post more details as to what parts you ended up using for the respective calipers (i.e. front/rear)?

    Interestingly, I did some similar detective work for Boxer Brakes and found the brake pads were the same as used on some early BMWs too! I did not yet post the details, as I wanted to double check the parts against my existing pads, but a cursory check look like they are the same.

    Thanks in advance!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  11. Arvid

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    #11 Arvid, Sep 19, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
    Sam,

    Budweg should be of good quality and their parts for our 400's is as follows :

    Front : Seal kit - BCK 4003. Pistons - BCP 4004 (BMW 2002,2500,2800,E23,E24,E12,Ford Sierra Cosworth)
    Rear : Seal kit - BCK 3402. Pistons - BCP 3407 (BMW E6 69-75,E10 66-77,VW K70 70-76,Audi 100 70-72,Audi 100 Coupe 70-74)

    One could also use these part.nr. for crossreference to other prefered brands such as original ATE.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  12. Arvid

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    I have not researched the caliper extensively but as far as I can gather from pictures and online info they are the same as ATE used on BMW's. The only difference would/could be the in-between spacer used to widen the caliper for thicker discs. This spacer is of course reusable.

    So,if you need new calipers for some reason you could obtain the right one from BMW and simply split it in two and apply the spacer. There are several shops that sell reconditioned BMW calipers.

    Should be cheaper than buying an original from Ferrari supliers :)

    For example Autohausaz.com offers reconditioned 4-pot calipers,34 and 40mm for $63-$73 + core exchange. Worst case scenario is that you would have to take it apart and put in the wider spacer. Should be fairly easy :) Aotohausaz offers also all the original ATE-parts for the DIY's among us :)
     
  13. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Arvid,

    This helps alot! Thank you very much for this and the other info you posted! I hope I will be able to return the favor!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  14. Arvid

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    Glad to be of help Sam.

    But I read somewhere that the series 3 400's from -83 onwards has 42mm pistons on front calipers. If this is the case then my previous info for front brakes does only apply 365 GT4 2+2 and series 1+2 400's.

    Can anyone confirm this or does the 42mm only concern the 412 ?
     
  15. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

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    I have overhauled a lot of those BMW calipers and 99.5% of the time the pistons are re-usable.
    The cheapo option consists of taking them apart using hydraulic pressure, followed by a cleanup of the inside of the piston bore by sandblasting or careful sanding, and €25 worth of new seal kit with plenty of ATE assembly lube. Then function-wise, they're as good as new.
    If you want them as nice as pictured you need to fork out quite a bit more though.
    Worth noting, the recommendation is NOT to take the two halves apart, as they are bolted together with stretch bolts.
     
  16. Arvid

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    #16 Arvid, Sep 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
    For those of us that prefer OE parts,in this case ATE's numbers,the parts should be as follows.

    ATE Front 40mm :
    -New caliper : 13.4401-8021.2 (left side). 13.4401-8022.2 (right side)
    -Repair kit/gaskets : 13.0441-4018.2

    ATE Rear 34mm :
    -New caliper : 13.4341-8001.2 (left side). 13.4341-8002.2 (right side)
    -Repair kit/gaskets : 13.0441-3401.2

    BMW OE nr. 40mm :
    -New caliper : 34111101093 and 34111101094
    -Repair kit : 34111103723

    BMW OE nr. 34mm :
    -New caliper : 34111101843 and 34111101844
    -Repair kit : 34111103289

    I have cross referenced the numbers to Budweg and they match with BCK4003 (40mm) and BCK3402 (34mm).

    Previous poster has a good point. In most cases the pistons can be re-used. They are of good quality and are usually very nice after cleaning/light sanding (6-800 grade paper). Only place that really rusts is the outer area in contact with pads.
     
  17. Piston.Broke

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    Hi Arvid,
    I am just rebuilding the front brake calipers on my (early 400i) and interestingly enough, I have found that the front calipers on my car are 42mm (ATE). The brake piston size is actually 41.9mm and height is 29.5mm. The brake seals appear to be ATE - (Possibly an ATE/Brembo) and the ATE part numbers on them is 13.8102-4002.1. Unfortunately, I cant seem to find any equivalent.
    Has anybody out there got any ideas on what the equivalent may be?
    Regards,
    Piston.Broke
     
  18. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    Rick, are you looking for equivalent, complete replacement calipers or just certain components such as the seals etc ?
     
  19. Piston.Broke

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    Thanks Rusty Tractor.
    I would like to put in new brake pistons and dust seals. I have procured some suitable brake piston (42 mm internal rubber) seals. So, I may have to purchase an entire caliper rebuild kit but I am unsure what BMW (or other kit would work).

    Regards.

    Piston.Broke
     
  20. Arvid

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    #20 Arvid, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    Hi Rick,

    I have a few downloaded catalogues. If You measure the inner diameter of the piston I'll probably find the parts for You. Probably same calipers as the 412.

    Arvid
     
  21. Piston.Broke

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    Thanks Arvid.

    I will measure the ID and let you know.

    What calipers do the 412 use?

    Cheers!

    Rick.
     
  22. Arvid

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    Rick,

    Where on the piston did You measure 42mm ? On the body itself or at the end towards brake pad ? The ATE part number you gave responds to a 40mm seal. The -4002.1 indicates the diameter of the piston so if it where 42mm it should read 4202.1.
     
  23. Piston.Broke

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    Hi again Arvid,

    I think the inside diameter of the front 42mm piston is approximately 22.5mm.

    Cheers!

    Piston.Broke
     
  24. Arvid

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    Thanks Rick. Can You measure the piston at to check if it's 40 or 42 ? The seal you had indicates a 40mm piston.
     
  25. Piston.Broke

    Piston.Broke Rookie

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    Hi again Arvid.

    This diameter was measured (and apparently double checked) by the brake overhaul company which I originally took the calipers to for a rebuild. So I am trusting them at their word on the 41.9 mm measurement.

    I may remove the dust seals and pop out one of the pistons to measure it myself. As I am now wary that they may have got it wrong.

    Will advise.

    Cheers!

    Rick.
     

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