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Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A

Discussion in '206/246' started by alhbln, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #1 alhbln, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi,

    i am working on the AEC103A rebuild and restoration article for the www.dinoplex.org website and thought i post some photos on ferrarichat, so you can see it here first :)
    Scope of the rebuild is to create a fully original looking replacement for a defective AEC103A setup.

    As the AEC103A is potted in epoxy, a repair is quite time and labour intense, so the rebuild focuses on replacing the original CDI with a robust high energy electronic transistor ignition made by Bosch.
    The components are easily available and relatively cheap (<$180/€140 for ignition controller, connector and transistor coil). The ignition controller is one of the most advanced ones on the market and handles electronic dwell management, current control and limiter, coil current is up to 8A. The setup supports points, electronic trigger via a Pertronix Ignitor module or optical Lumenition pickup. This configuration is good for >9000 RPM in a V6 setup, e.g. no spark energy fading in high revs.

    This setup has been installed in a range of Dinos in the last two years (and some Alfas and a Maserati) without any failure, so i guess its mature enough for a public post :)

    Pictures below:
    1. Removing the expoxy core
    2. Bead blasted AEC103 enclosure
    3. Bosch ignition controller and connector prepared for installation (optical setup for Lumenition pickup, wiring is documented here: http://www.dinoplex.org/PDF/Wiring_Ferrari_Dino_246_Bosch_Optical_Pickup.pdf). The heatsink has already been installed in the AEC103A enclosure, including thermal grease.
    4. Wiring scheme for a points based setup, the inverter is a simple transistor setup, documented here: http://www.dinoplex.org/PDF/Wiring_Ferrari_Dino_246_Bosch.pdf
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  2. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #2 alhbln, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pictures below:
    1. AEC103A converted to pickup or Pertronix Ignitor setup (old layout, new one uses extra ballast resistor for keeping the points clean)
    2. AEC103A converted to optical setup, sensor wires for optical pickup
    3. AEC103A optical setup including new wires in original layout including an extension for the optical pickup
    4. AEC103A optical setup installed, fully restored AEC103A

    The restoration/rebuild article will contain all necessary steps and an instruction how to do the wiring and rebuild.

    enjoy,
    Adrian
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  3. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #3 alhbln, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    p.s. there is also a conversion of the AEC101, which will be documented next. This rebuild is for the Dino 206 and early Dino 246 GT L Series and makes sense if you have a defective inverter transformer, as the cost for rebuilding the transformer roughly the same as the parts required for the Bosch conversion. If the AEC101/102 transformer is still ok though, a repair would be a better option.
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  4. swift53

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    #4 swift53, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
    Adrian, that is very well done. I would like to know more for both for the "L" series, AEC101 and for the AEC103...thank you.
    Regards, Alberto
     
  5. GermanDino

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    This is perfect stuff. We installed Adrian`s set up first in my M-serie Dino #01406 two years ago and I tested it extensively. 6000 Km on the clock now without any problems. I also did a high speed test on the autobahn (German motorway) and after 7800 rmp and 270 km/h on the clock I decided to slow down, but only because I became scared ;-)
    Perfect function and what I think is also very important is that only an expert can identify it`s not the original system (the coil looks slightly different).
    Adrian, many thanks for your great work.
    Regards Matthias

    PS: It`s very important you have a perfekt carburetor set up and an overhauled distributor. Only it this three components work perfectly together you are able to achieve best result.
     
  6. TonyL

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    Nice work Adrian,thank you for sharing information this with us

    Tony
     
  7. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Hi Alberto,

    your late L series would have been delivered with a Dinoplex AEC101C DA, if you need to repair or rebuild it i am happy to support. Let me know what you need.

    Best,
    Adrian
     
  8. swift53

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    Hello Adrian, you are right it is a 101DA.
    Issues:
    1. Do not know if it works
    2. Is it worth seeing if it does? How?
    3. I think all things considered, modern is better.
    4. The best combination of ignitions, as replacing internals of 101DA is a given, I am unsure which unit should I use in the distributor to have a good reliable system after 101 is properly repaired.
    5. The outside of 101 is covered in paint overspray, any ideas how to clean it without damage to the plates? I will post a photo for you to see. Would the internals of an MSD fit inside 101? Ideally, all work should be (hopefully done here in El Salvador, as shipping is both costly and problematic...
    Thank you.
    Regards, Alberto
     
  9. synchro

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    Adrian,

    This is very impressive!
    Aren't the Bosch coils blue while the image in your post shows it as black?
    The coil may be the only exception to making this appear factory original.

    How much does a conversion cost for my AE-103?
     
  10. GermanDino

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    It`s silver, but we thought we need an original look and we painted it black.
    We also removed the plastic protection at the top of the coil.
    Looks pretty much original now, or what do you think Scott.
    ;-)
     
  11. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #11 alhbln, Mar 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Bosch blue coil is only for low current inductive (points triggered) ignitions and would not work too well with the high current electronic Bosch ignition controller. The correct coil for this ignition controller is Bosch 0 221 122 334, it comes in silver with a black top. The image below shows a yet unpainted Bosch 0 221 122 334 coil for a (AEC101) Bosch conversion. Matthias did a very nice job finishing the coil in the correct RAL 9005 satin black finish, as used by Marelli on the original coils.

    The Bosch components for the conversion cost <$180/€140, you also need wires, two AMP connectors, cable protecting sleeve, which will add another $10-$20. It takes around 2-4 hours to do a conversion. I don't offer conversions as a service but am happy to support and help anyone who wants to do one.
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  12. alhbln

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    1. Does it emit a high pitched sound when the ignition is on and the switch is set to "Normale". If so, its quite likely that it still works, but it might need a fresh set of inverter transistors after all these years.
    2. I think its worth it, a fully functional Dinoplex AEC101 is still a very good choice of ignition for the V6 Dino engine and wont usually break down as long as you dont start your Dino with an external battery (hotstart), that usually kills the inverter transistors.
    I will publish a test and repair guide for the AEC101 soon on the website, but can send you a draft for your workshop, if you need one send me your emailaddress to info@dinoplex.org
    3. Thats what the Bosch conversion is for :)
    4. The Lumenition Optronics OS50 pickup is a very good choice to convert the S125 distributor to a contactless trigger. You also need to get the FK425 adapter kit for the conversion.
    5. I use bead blasting to restore the Dinoplex enclosures, you can cover the labels with gaffa/duct tape to protect them.
    The MSD 6A (the older analogue unit) does fit in the AEC101 enclosure, havent tried the digital MSD 6AL-2 yet.

    Best,
    Adrian
     
  13. TonyL

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  14. nerodino

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    I told you that you and i should have bought that company!
     
  15. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    I do endorse the Superformance AEC labels, they are nearly perfect reproductions (and i am known to be overly picky :) )
     
  16. TonyL

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    Gift horse and mouth sprng to mind!!!

    Tony

    Ps better than the heating game thats for certain
     
  17. 4redno

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    #17 4redno, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
    Really cool thread.

    Actually, the replacement Marelli label in this photo looks like the one for sale from Parker Hall of Kilimanjaro Designs. I know this because I had them made when restoring my Dino. I peeled and scanned the old label from my coil, pixel poked the image to fix the imperfections and then had them professionally printed by a label manufacturer here in Seattle. I sold all but the one I put on my car to Parker so none of you needs to waste your time doing this again - you can just buy one and stick them on. I also produced the 206/246 "L" fuse box labels he sells. I'm a freak for detail so the colors, fonts and quality are dead ringers for the originals.

    FYI, I have no affiliation with Parker - he's just a neat guy I met when I starting going to Ferrari events. His Ferrari parts catalogue is truly drool-inducing.

    Cheers...Keith
     
  18. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #18 alhbln, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another design fanatic :) Correct, thats also a self made reproduction based on the early seventies Marelli BZR205A sticker (interestingly the only one which does not list the coil number). Adobe Illustrator is a great tool for vectorizing logos and redoing the uneven spacing of the old Gill Sans font used by Marelli. Color matching was quite interesting, as the original tint was a full red, but as the red pigment faded over the year its now kind of a blueish red color. Have decided to reproduce a slightly 'aged' color. The BAE200A label is next.

    The problematic one is the Superpotente sticker for the emergenza coil, as it seems to be quite difficult to get the silver foil with the correct tint of gold.

    Anyone who is not totally obsessed by doing such things is much better off by the offer from Parker Hall though, good recommendation!

    Best,
    Adrian
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  19. 4redno

    4redno Formula 3

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    I've got three small kids now so I think my days of pixel poking labels are over for a while. It's nice to know there is someone else to count on if I need to source a custom label in the future!

    Cheers,

    Keith
     
  20. DinoDriver

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    Sorry to resurrect this excellent thread--thank you very much, alhbin--but I've got a related question about Bosch coils. I've got one of Superformance's "updated" Dinoplexes that's probably about 4 years old. I've got it running through the ballast resistor that's mounted on a stock Marelli BK3A coil. Today I noticed that the Dinoplex System that's currently being sold by Superformance comes with a Bosch 221 119 030 "Red" Coil with an attached resistor. See http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-246/ignition.htm I'm trying to solve a hot start problem on my '74 GTS that's gotten worse with time. The ignition and starter systems work great under all circumstances except trying to start with a heat soaked engine. I've narrowed the problem to a very hot coil--too hot to touch-- and no or weak spark at the plug only with a heat soaked engine. Sounds like the coil to me. Should I try the Bosch Red coil as a replacement since that's what SP is using?
    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  21. Ferraripilot

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    The Bosch red coil is an excellent replacement and are epoxy filled so they can be mounted on their sides. Should you have a difficult time locating one, try a MSD blaster 'high vibration' model which is epoxy filled. The high end Marelli equivalent is the Marelli BK3a
     
  22. DinoDriver

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    lvferraripilot,

    Thanks for the input. As stated, I'm currently using the BK3A and it may be the cause of the problem - - about 3 years old. Not too impressive! I'm hoping that SP did their homework in using the Bosch. Any other relevant opinions/experiences would be appreciated.

    Bill
     
  23. dignini

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    Any problems with overheating of the ignition modules?
     
  24. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Bill,

    the Superformance AEC103 replica is based on the original Super4 transistor ignition, which is also used by Superformance to retrofit Dinoplex units such as yours.
    The now supplied Bosch Red coil and ballast resistor have a combined resistance of about 3.6&#937; (e.g. 3.5 Ampere primary current), whereas the BK3A with the corresponding resistor has 1.8&#937; (e.g. 6.9 Ampere primary current), so it will run a bit hotter in any case.

    Its quite likely that your BK3A has a defect (shorts in the primary winding), which leads to a saturation of the coil resulting in the high temperature and low spark voltage you experience. As a rule of thumb, an inductive coil such as the BK3A or Bosch Red should never run hotter than 80ºC, a normal operation temperature would be 50º-60ºC.

    There should be no problem to exchange your BK3A against the Bosch Red coil 0 221 119 030 and corresponding Bosch resistor 0 227 900 001. You can get the Bosch parts from any Bosch dealer or Bosch workshop by telling them the two order numbers.

    Keep in mind that the Super4 ignition does not have dwell control, it relies on the correct dwell setting of the distributor. You should make sure that the dwell is set correct by measuring the points distance (gap) with a feeler gauge, it should be 0.35 mm as in the factory manual.

    I recommend using a Super4 ignition with NGK BPR7EIX spark plugs, this helps with starting a cold or hot engine considerably.

    Best,
    Adrian
     
  25. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    No problem, the Bosch 137 module usually stays below 50ºC when combined with the corresponding coil 0 221 122 334.
     

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