Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A

Discussion in '206/246' started by alhbln, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. marianosciacca

    Dec 20, 2012
    18
    Dear Sir! Sorry No!
    the photos I have attached in previous my post are of an other SPARE REPLICA Superformance as You correctly States!
    Yes.
    BUT ON SERVICE ON THE car actually I have an other one, as You see on the photos of inner of my Engine, a GENUINE AEC 103 A Marelli as I purchased from LANCIA in Torino, in the 1976
    You understand?
    Please excuse but I am a collector also.
    Regards Kindly,
    mariano sciacca
     
  2. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
    Consultant Owner

    Mar 4, 2008
    1,749
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    Adrian
    No problem, with the original AEC103A my recommendation is the NGK BPR 7 ES for your engine, if you get plug fouling, try the 6 ES instead.

    Best regards,
    Adrian
     
  3. marianosciacca

    Dec 20, 2012
    18
    Yes! Compliment Thanks.
    You are Right.
    In the my Post 102 You see the Genuine Marelli AEC103A fitted from Factory in my Stratos, now I have on service.
    About the Spark Plugs I have also :
    NGK BP8EVX
    Champion N9YC
    Champion N6YCC
    I think the better for not racing use are the Champion N9YC
    Or the N2G
    Yes the NGK are goods.
    regards saluti
    yours
    mariano sciacca
     
  4. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    Scott
    What is the purpose of the capacitor on the side of the distributor?
    Thank you

     
  5. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2008
    462
    UK
    Scott, I think it is to stop sparking between the points pads. I am sure Adrian will tell us... Kevin
     
  6. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Mar 4, 2008
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    The capacitor on the distributor is only required for points based ignitions. It creates a resonance between itself and the coil winding after the points have been openend to enhance/extend the magnetic field/discharge.

    In doing this it also reduces the arc between the points terminals as Kevin already mentioned, extending the service time of the points contatcs considerably.

    Happy new year!
    Adrian
     
  7. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    Thank you.
    Will it interfere with the Lumenition - Bosch system if the capcitor is retained?
     
  8. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Not a problem since it is not actually connected, just retained for originality.
     
  9. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #134 synchro, Jan 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 72 Euro wiring diagram shows a European version but has an emissions microswitch to access the second ignition profiles.

    Did Euro cars have the microswitch and why?
    I thought this was only associated with the US solution

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  10. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    453
    Silicon Valley
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    Mark
    I've wondered the same thing. As best I can tell from Matthias' book and other sources, the switch was present on euro cars, but only hooked up in those european countries that had emission regulations. Mine (Italian market) looks like it has the switch and the distributor setup, but no wiring to hook them together.
     
  11. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Mar 4, 2008
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    The later Euro cars (starting from mid of '72?) had the microswitch/distributor advance retardation setup as kind of an "entry level" emission control setup to cater for the different european emission regulations. I believe that all Dinos that had the microswitch also had the wiring in place per factory.

    When the microswitch is activated via a Weber carb throttle linkage, it switches points setup R2 in parallel to R1 to retard the advance timing by 5.5º. This required a distributor with six cams instead of three cams, so the S125C distributor was introduced to replace the previously used S125BX type.

    The US cars had a more thorough approach due to the strict emission requirements, this setup additionally included an air pump and an anti hop device which ensured that the ignition retardation did not take place when the throttle pedal was not pressed for a short time.
     
  12. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    p.s. 25.000 views, cool :)
     
  13. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #138 synchro, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Were there more than one type of AEC103 Case used by Marelli?

    I have had 2 boxes for nearly 20 years; one has housed a Perma Tune since 1994 and been trusty but not very high powered. The second is a marginal unit that originally came in my Dino but became flakey with intermittent inop.

    I wanted to start this project and began removing the guts of #2 when I noticed it was a bit different on the bottom half of the case, feet and connector shroud.

    Any ideas?

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  14. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    There were three slightly different AEC103A cases.

    On the first version (1970-1972) the transistor cover on the back was solid, also there were no thyristor screw holes visible on the backside.
    The second version (1972-1975) had a transistor cover with holes and the thyristor screw hole was visible on the backside.
    Both first and second version had a stamped serial/production code on the backside, and a smooth surface like the one in the back of your photo.
    The third version (1978) was a continuation model which had a more rough cast and no serial/production code on the back.

    I've never seen a version without the cover for the connector, as in the back of your photo. Can you have a look on the lower side of the enclosure above the center single screw mount, if there is a stamped two digit code? Might take a bit of cleaning to find it, the stamping is not very deep.
     
  15. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Hello,

    I want to change my DINO ignition to a totally electronic system (points & advance).
    Originally, the dinoplex is a capacitive discharge ignition and, in a first time, I wanted to replace it with a modern capacitive discharge Ignition (like MSD, i.e.).
    After overview of many systems (thanks a lot to Adrian for its work!), I was decided to mount the Bosch system (Power module + Coil), because I could read that many owners are very satisfied with it .
    And then, I find this website: https://imfsoft.com/en/category-control-units

    Does anyone knows this products? If yes, what are you thinking about?

    Note: I using BPR10EVX NGK spark plugs, because I saw in a NGK technical book that they are the cross-talk to the old Champion N60Y.
     
  16. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    I have only seen NGK heat ranges 6 or 7 used, how successful are the range 10 plugs (BPR10EVX)?
     
  17. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    BPR10EVX's are quite cold, i can't imagine that you would need that range for a standard compression Dino engine, except maybe for racing?
     
  18. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    I don't run a lot of kms since the restauration of the engine, but the BPR10EVX seems to be very good; the only problem is when you let the engine idle (without any acceleration) more than 15-20 min. If you do that, the spark plugs must be changed.

    Today, I'm using the originally ignition system; In the future, I will see what will be the result with an electronic ignition.
     
  19. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Yes, I know that the BPR10EVX's are quite cold, but they are the cross reference to the highway spark plugs Champion N60Y. They are also recommanded in the owner manual.

    Personnally, I'll never will use a cross reference to the Champion N6Y.
    Because, for 30 years, I was member of a Club Dino and for my first meeting, I saw a member who made about 450kms on the highway, slowly (about 5000/5500 rpm) because it's engine was coming out of restauration.
    When he arrived, it's engine run only of 4 cylinders, because 2 spark plugs overheated and the ceramic melted; there were also a hole in the pistons.
    Since that day, I promised me to never use the champion N6Y or it's cross reference.
     
  20. snowsports1

    snowsports1 Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2013
    918
    UK
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    Brian
    Is it possible to rebuild the aec103a to original specs or a modern alternative so I can use points and original coils etc, mine needs to be rebuilt and could do with a how to.
     
  21. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,649
    Southern California
    #146 4CamGT, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
    I brought my whole ignition system back to totally stock including points. This was my decision I made after listening to many points of view. Mainly that when something went wrong it was easier to troubleshoot with simple roadside tools and know how. Adrian mentioned to me about a new development last year. It's the Winterburn CD. Adrian had never tested it, I decided to be the guinea pig! I emailed the creator, Fred Winterburn about his unit. It sounded really promising and exactly what I was looking for. His dad, Lloyd Winterburn created the first commercially available CD ignition in the early 60's. Fred is a retired nuclear power plant operator and worked beside his dad in the early days. Now as sort of a hobby/business he is making an improved version of his dad's patent. It is designed solely for a points system. Bosch and Marelli copied his system. That is why it is a perfect replacement for the Dinoplex. It is a Dinoplex plus. Adrian made me a wiring diagram. What's wonderful is once you install the correct connectors, it is a direct plug in replacement for the Dinoplex. It has three switchable settings: CD, Off and STD (direct coil to points). The system also allows you to use the emergency coil. Fred is also willing to install them inside an empty Dinoplex w/o the switch or the switch moved outside the box. I have one of his very first units and it has performed flawlessly! I've been using mine for over 8 months. Go back and look at my early posts on ignition issues I had. This system along with the world's last NOS Marelli S125BX distributor fixed all my ignition issues!! It stays really cool. He hand builds them on his kitchen table and they are beautiful! They don't look garish like an MSD. They have a serious aerospace/racing no BS look about them. His price is around $350/$400ish. I referred the unit to a well known So-Cal Ferrari mechanic. He is in love with them! I'm hoping Adrian will post his wiring diagram and compare it to the a Dinoplex diagram. BTW, he also creates a 6V unit for early Porsches, VW's etc. Fred stands behind his work and will email, coach you through any questions or issues.

    If you go this route, the coil Fred advises for the Dino is the Pertronix 40011.

    I have been using the NGK Iridium BPR7EIX plugs with great results with zero fouling. My Dino fires up immediately after sitting for weeks and goes immediately to a steady idle. Hot restarts are instant. I couldn't be happier!

    File:RCAF photo, Spring 1964 001.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

    Capacitor discharge ignition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - WINTERBURN 'long duration spark' CD Ignition

    http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com

    TheSamba.com :: Gallery - Lloyd Winterburn and his Capacitor Discharge Ignition,2 photos

    Patent US3564581 - Ignition system - Google Patents

    Electronic ignition, Winterburn CD



    Freeman
     
  22. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #147 alhbln, Jan 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is possible to rebuild the AEC103A to original specs/circuit, but it is not worth the hassle from my perspective, it took me around 20 hours just for the rebuild of the circuit board (see below).

    A much better approach would be to replace the potted internals against a similar CDI ignition if you want to reuse the original coil and CDI setup.
    Both the MSD 6AL-2 as well as the Winterburn CDI internals are small enough to fit into an AEC103A enclosure. The Winterburn circuit board is slightly smaller and should be easier to fit.
    Keep in mind that the wiring is different. The original AEC103A required the coil negative terminal to be wired to ground and had the positive wire coming from the CDI. Both the Winterburn and AEC103 ignition have separate wires for the two coil terminals. I've added the Winterburn wiring diagram PDF below, the MSD6AL-2 diagram is online here:
    http://www.dinoplex.org/PDF/Wiring_Ferrari_Dino_246_MSD6AL2.pdf

    If you ask Fred nicely he might be willing to retrofit your (empty) AEC103 enclosure with his CDI. I recommend to replace the original coil against an MSD Blaster 2 (#8200), simply because the original BAE200/1/3 coil is most probably worn down by now. If you repaint the MSD coil in satin matte black and add the correct sticker it will look quite original.

    Good luck,
    Adrian
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  23. snowsports1

    snowsports1 Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2013
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    UK
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    Brian
    Thanks guys I will have a go at the Bosch retrofit. I have tried to source the Bosch unit and the part number does bring up some alternative Bosch units, is the 137 the only option?
     
  24. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2008
    462
    UK
    Snowsports, try this Bosch 0227100137 Ignition Trigger Box: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike
    A few others pop up on google search of "Bosch 0227100137" too.
    Looks like the same one. Is that correct Adrian?
    Kevin
     
  25. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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