Red Bull finished with Renault motors

Your post was about Mateschitz deciding that he was no longer going to let F1 play with his Zeltweg toy if he pulls his F1 team/teams out of the sport, not whether we should be going to Zeltweg rather than Baku, Singapore, Sepang or Sochi.

The point I'm making is that we have already lost some of the all time great circuits and that, whether it's due to politics, finances, facilities or even someone's personal whim/gripe, if the circuits become no longer available, F1 simply moves on.

At the end of the day, the lose of Zeltweg would be no different to the lose of Imola, Nurburgring, Estoril etc., etc.

The teams would say how sad they were to no longer be going there, but then they'd just get on with the business of racing at the circuits that are still on the calender.

If Mateschitz did pull Zeltweg from the F1 calender, the reality is that it would make very little difference to F1, if any at all!

 

How is it Renault's best interest to remain with a team that has been publicly berating, belittling and humiliating them all season?

A team that has publicly stated: "You're rubbish and we want nothing more to do with you!"?

Renault know that Red Bull have no real interest in working with them, so why should they bother to help red Bull out?

 

If it suits the best interests of the parties a lot will be forgotten. Or at least not mentioned.

RB is the best team available for Renault to partner with and if RB wants to stay in F1 Renault may be their best option.

Sentiment and pride will take a back seat to practicality.

 

What you say is correct.

But: If Zeltweg were no longer on the F1 calendar it would make a HUGE difference to me.

I love that track for its speed, elevation changes, historic significance, its beautiful surroundings and the fact that it is a European track. F1 has way too many tracks in countries with no F1 ties. Bringing back Zeltweg was the one time where that trend was reversed. Would be a true pitty to see that small victory lost again.

If they have too many races on the calendar I gladly trade a few Asian ones against one Euro race.

 

Many of us feel as you do but Bernie pulls the strings, and more Euro circuits just isn't in the cards. Zeltweg and Dietrich be damned I care more about F1 than the cans, and so does Bernie. I'm naive enough to think he will force the Cans and Renault into a solution if it best suits the sport.

 

Exactly. Pragmatism, not emotion, will rule the day.

 

Not disagreeing with that, just loosing Zeltweg again would be painful

 

Renault is contractually obliged to provide engines to RBR for 2016

 

Looks like Red Balls are crawling back to Renault. But if Renault buy lotus, will they sell Red Balls second tier Engines???? Poor Red Balls......no body wants to play with them. (((


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Hope RBR leaves

 

I'm not so sure. Didn't they agree to part ways? I presume that means they had the foresight to terminate their contractual agreements?

 

Renault has agreed to let them out of any obligation So the option is at RBR doorstep to either stay in 2016 or go.
Since they took their shopping cart around and found nothing IMO they will stay with Renault.
Plus I highly doubt for 2016 the Renault motor will be any less than a 2015 spec Ferrari unit.
There might be even a pleasant upside

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/13877136/adrian-newey-doubts-red-bull-reconciliation-renault-2016

 

Red Bull pretty much announced that their contract with Renault was no longer valid when they then went to speak to Mercedes, and Renault agreed.

The sticking point is whether the announcement at the time from both parties legally means that the original contract no longer exists.

 

You'd think that this sort of partnership wouldn't work if it's held together only by litigation.

 

True! - Old sayings of horses and water do spring to mind immediately, however, for Red Bull it's starting to look like the only option left for them!

I'd have to say though that if I were Renault, I wouldn't even bother talking to Red Bull after the way that they've been treated this season.

It's like an abused wife being asked to take back an abusive husband because "They didn't mean it!", and that "It'll be different this time! - You'll see!", when the husband realises he has no where else to go.

 

Just what F1 needs. Another dysfunctional relationship.

 

Yet again it reminds Me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSaNWYHmUvI

"Confused? - You won't be after this episode of F1!"

 

1) Renault should stick to its gun and refuse to have anything to do with Red Bull and Toro Roso.

2) If Bernie doesn't give Renault "historical" right allowing extra income, and make it a member of the Strategic Working Group, Renault should renounce buying Lotus, and withdraw from F1 immediatly.

If Ecclestone was facing the prospect of 6 cars missing from the grid next year, maybe he would change his tune.

FOM should have financed an independent engine builder to guaranty a supply of engines/power units to private teams at a realistic price, to break the stranglehold car manufacturers have on F1.

 

Somehow I don't see Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari and Honda letting Bernie fund a competitor.

 

And why not ?

I think that in the old days of CART, and maybe still in IRL, any car company entering the series had to be able to supply engines to half the field.

Would that be more acceptable to Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari and Honda than an independent outsider being supported to provide engines on demand to any team that needs it? In fact, this would recreate the Cosworth phenomenon, when any chassis builder could buy an engine over the counter. Happy days ...

Would Mercedes and Ferrari rather undertake to supply 5 teams each?

 

Bernie Ecclestone was once asked: "How do you become a Millionaire in F1?"

To which he replied: "By starting off being a Billionaire!"

Bernie has no intention of becoming a Millionaire any time soon!

 

For starters they'd be betting against the house. No matter how the deal was structured there'd always be a suspicion that " Bernie's" Team was getting some sort of preferential treatment. Given his record not an entirely unwarranted suspicion.

 

Well, I think that if 10% or more of the FOM proceed was dedicated to finance an independent engine builder under certain clauses, the car manufacturers wouldn't have much to object. After all, the big players themselves are "subsidized" by FOM, aren't they?

The FIA would contract an engine buider, with a guaranted income.
The engines could be sold/leased at a fixed price.
They should all have the same characteristics and their allocation decided at random.
Their power should match the rest of the field.
The independent engine builder would not have its own team, nor favour a particular team.

That solution could interest several independent teams that are at present customers of the 3 majors carmakers (Sauber, Manor, Force India, Williams, and even Red Bull and Toro Rosso) and prevent a deadlock situation like we have at present, with a major entrant not knowing where to source its engine for next year.

 

Well, it looks like Bernie has listened to my suggestion after all!!!



Ecclestone still pushing for alternative engine for Red Bull


Ecclestone still pushing for alternative engine for Red Bull - Formula 1 News


Bernie Ecclestone is still contemplating an alternative to the current V6 hybrid power unit, and if he succeeds in pushing it through it could mean that the F1 grid will feature two different engine types as early as next season.
The two alternatives he has been considering in recent months are a return to pre-2014 V8s - with Renault or Cosworth as the possible sources - or the use of a 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6, with a simple KERS package.
Ecclestone has access to a third party example of the latter.
Any move towards an alternative engine would require significant last-minute rule changes to be forced through, and would obviously come up against considerable opposition from teams.
Red Bull is known to be aware that a 3.5-litre V6 is potentially available. In addition, the Lotus and Renault deal is still far from concluded, so a third team could yet require an engine for 2016.
Ecclestone insisted throughout the Russian Grand Prix weekend that Red Bull would find an engine solution, and that there would be 22 cars on the grid next year, despite Ferrari and Mercedes both making it clear that they would not be supplying the Milton Keynes team.

 

Ecclestone still pushing for alternative engine for Red Bull - Formula 1 News

Never going to happen! - We'll have three car teams from Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren first!

Next!