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Removing the charcoal canister from my vacuum system

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Kurt SC, May 16, 2020.

  1. Kurt SC

    Kurt SC Rookie

    May 16, 2017
    32
    Charleston
    Full Name:
    Kurt W.
    I recently pulled the radiator for reconditioning and noticed a vacuum charcoal canister attached to one of the fan mounts. My car was imported into USA when new and this was obviously added for epa regulations. I’ve already removed the cats and all the other unnecessary epa crap over the years but missed this. What should I do with the fuel tank vent line shown in my hand? It runs from engine bay all the way to fuel tank. The canister was looped back into the right intake bank before I removed it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  3. Part Time

    Part Time Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 16, 2013
    493
    Port St. Lucie, Fl
    Full Name:
    Gary Shore
    Yup, looks quite familiar. Took mine off years ago, as to the pipe, follow it back and remove it also, as it was done for EPA also, mine was a rubber hose all the way.
    Just cap off the other end where it joined the original fuel vent, mine was a TEE fitting, which I removed and replaced with a straight splice.

    Gary
     
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  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I was having an issue with gas tank pressurizing on hot days; when cap was removed for a fill-up there was a lot of pressure on the cap. I had similar carbon canister against the firewall. I tried to blow thru the line back to the tank and it was clogged. I blew a little harder and it cleared. Tank pressure issue was gone. So I am not sure just blocking the hose back at the tank is the best otrion.
    Ken
     
  5. Kurt SC

    Kurt SC Rookie

    May 16, 2017
    32
    Charleston
    Full Name:
    Kurt W.
    There has always been some relief pressure when removing my gas cap for fill up so I guess the canister failed long ago... The design and technology are so outdated that I can’t see where it’s still needed. Really cleans up the engine bay without all the extra lines etc...


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  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    75,247
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    You might look at the system diagram, in the 308 a similar canister has a valve in the tubing in the inner fender,, for one way flow towards the canister, then the can vents in bottom to air.

    Your back feed into the intake is obviously a little different...
     
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  8. Part Time

    Part Time Formula Junior
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    Dec 16, 2013
    493
    Port St. Lucie, Fl
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    Gary Shore
    Here is a pic of my canister before removal, ( which was done after the battery & tray were removed ), look close at the rusty wrench stuck between the heat shield and frame.

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    And here is the " professionally installed " check valve and vapor line going to the tank.
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    And the really neat way to grab vacuum from the intake, which required replacement of the hose.

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    Of course, it's all in the plastic tub with the EPA stuff.

    Gary
     
  9. Kurt SC

    Kurt SC Rookie

    May 16, 2017
    32
    Charleston
    Full Name:
    Kurt W.
    EPA...I guess one should watch the beginning of the movie “The Rain Man” to understand how desperate car importers were back in the day to make a sale and comply with the then regulations.


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  10. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Friday I took a nice 2-3 hour drive from my Finger Lakes home to Sodus Bay on Lake Ontario. It was high 80's. I started with tank 80% full and stopped to refill on way home with about 1/2 tank. When I unscrewed cap there was a LOT of pressure in tank, enough that even some fuel surged out the filler spout. With our fragile fuel tanks I'm surprised it did not rupture. I have one of those GM charcoal canisters on center of the firewall. See my post above about clearing the line to the tank a few years ago. I am looking now for a more permanent solution. I don't think I want to just vent the tank directly to a wheel well. Does it make sense to run vapor line from the tank to the crank case breather which goes to the intake manifold on the inlet side of the FI flow disc? If the line blocks going from back to front of the chassis, this does not help any. I have not gotten into this job yet so looking for ideas before I begin. Vent needs to breath in both directions so you don't pull vacuum on tank either.
    Ken
     
  11. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,048
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Why don't you just revert back to the standard setup? 2 lines are getting out of the tanks through transparent hoses, these two hoses pass next to the trunk hinges and are re-united on the back-seat panel (I've got a "canister" here). Finally there is a common exit on the floor.
     
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  13. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Raemin
    I am headed in just that direction. I copied and marked up the fuel tank parts diagram. There was some kind of "canister", item #7, with a drain to somewhere. I have the dual AC. Was item #7 and your canister between the dummy panel and back o seats? Does your "exit" just exit thru bottom of car in the middle or is it near the fuel tank? Was there an original opening for it? More details than I need but it will be easiest to follow original path.
    Ken
     

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  14. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,048
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Sorry I've glued back the carpet... The exit is in the middle of the backseat panel, at the angle between panel and bottom. Between the fuel pumps.

    I suspect that earlier car had direct vents, as two of the vents below the truck (the ones exiting on the back of the fenders) were taped, and these do use the same hoses as what now goes to the back seats.
     
  15. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Simple! I'll start looking for existing hoses this week. Thanks.
     
  16. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Okay, I got started scope this and a bit more. The up front part is easy. The canister has two hoses T'd into some vacuum lines and I can just run new vacuum lines without the T's. The canister has a pinch clamp that I can access and once canister is out I'll be able to get the bracket unbolted from the firewall. NOTE: although the tank vents are each 15 mm or bigger in diameter, the damn US converter ran what looks like 1/8" brake line steel tube from back to front of car into the canister. NO WONDER IT GETS CLOGGED!

    No the tougher part. It looks I got off on wrong foot starting to follow the vent lines from the tanks in the trunk. I have the rear AC and those vent lines both disappear behind (actually in front) the evaporator. I never found where the T is located.

    Raemin, if I remove the rear seats will I have access to where the two vent lines join? Isn't there a solid petition behind the seats? you mention removing the carpet, is that behind the seats? It has been a couple of years since I had the back seats out and that was to remove the parcel shelf.
    Ken
     
  17. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,048
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    No luck: the rear seat panel is some sort of firewall: unlike rest of the fiberglass cockpit this is a metal part. I am not familiar with the dual AC systems, but if you remove the carpets, it should be on the right of the evaporator. If you remove the right backseat you will have access to the screws that hold the canister though.

    See one of my previous posts:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/undocumented-part.616892/#post-147039325
    In one of your older post (10 years ago!), blkprlz posted better pictures and one can see how the small hose exits the trunk:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/fuel-tank-venting.283644/#post-139667979
     
  18. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Thanks for the refresher along with new and old pics. That guy SouthJersey400i has been there before!! :)

    Hopefully, your pic and Bruce's are representative of where the little tank is. I hope I will be able to feel it thru the carpet before pulling it all apart. If it is as close to the speaker as in Bruce's pic then I should be able to reach it without messing with the evaporator plumbing. The flex hose for air from the evaporator on the left side was easy to remove, but not easy on the right side. If access from the trunk proves problematic I may go to plan B based on my 10 year old post.

    Plan B: leave the trunk alone and access the drain hose from below the car above the diff. (not easy after my back surgery in Jan.) I will disconnect all the hose, tubing, pipe etc that goes to the canister. Hopefully the short line from the metal tank to below the bodywork is clear or I will get it clear.

    In either case I will take some pics to document. I can't believe how much of this I did 10 years ago!!
    Ken
     
  19. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,408
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    DONE! Removing the canister bits was fairly easy. Two less hoses in the engine V is a nice clean up. The canister bracket was actually bolted to the back of the left intake cam rear housing not to the firewall. I sure wish I removed it 10 years ago when I first found it. It would have made last fall's distributor job much easier and now there is easy access to the two heater control valves. There is new open space to work back there!

    I read my 10 year old post and dived under the car and it was just like I left it (Duh). After clipping several zip ties I got back to the original vent hose that comes. After removing the excess tubing to the front of the car, I blew thru to the fuel cap so the tank is now vented. The vent point will be close to the diff mount on right side; this keeps it away from the exhaust pipe with the frame in between. The long tube to the front appears to be 1/8" brake tubing, not a very open path to vent thru.

    There was nothing worth taking pictures.
    Ken
     

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