Resto Mods or Not

I am referring to the modern series of Chevy motors, not the old SBC.

After all the years and experience I have with piston engines of all types including a whose who of exotics I'll never build a 7000 or 8000 rpm motor when I can get 5000 or 6000 to do the same thing and they make much better street engines. None of these cars we are talking about are going on the grid anywhere.

Ford FE is too big and heavy unless you really want that motor for its looks. Ford small blocks I have never had a lot of use for unless again the application warrants it like and old Falcon or something . And Cleveland motors are about as exiting as watching grass grow.

A pro engine builder once told me the most power per inch motors he ever built were Fords but they were far and away the most expensive per HP. The only Ford motor that ever got me exited was the Boss 429 but those cost huge money. Rather have a Chrysler Hemi. You want looks or you want HP? Big question, any can make more than needed but cost is an important factor and in some cases packaging.

 

I was refering to the new LSX chev motors. Fuel injected works right out the box, dotn like to rev and vibratey. If youre going a out tyhe box injected pushrod mtor chev is THE game in town.

If youre prepared to build or have built a motor and dont mind spending 15-20K to do it right, soemhtign startign with ford architecture is imo the way to go, you can have webbers or one of those new injection systems that mimicks webers.

Makign power is easy, makign pwer that will last costs more. Makign power that will last, with a great power band and loves to rev, that costs more still.

I suppose its depedant on use.

For FE's if youre building a 427 cobra is to me the right way to go, plenty of companies making reasonable aluminum blocks there too. Or just doa 289 cobra with a worked 302 it'll still make over 475hp which is mkore than the car can handle.

If you want a street sbc with lots of power to run some rod or lead sled, nelson racing engines at 15000hp is the way to go.

I guess its all horses for courses. In the end any restomod based of a USA car running any manufacturers pushrod V8 is keeping the essence of the USA machine. Still theres no reason to put a ford in vette or visa versa..

 

Takign this debate one step further. I think its might be pretty cool to restomod a 308 with a 430 motor etc and that keeps the ferrari essence. I wouldnt use a chev or ford in a ferrari.

 

One of several stories. No PC back then either.

Waterbury had a "cruise scene" every Saturday night (think American Graffiti), but sometimes we'd get bored, as teenagers do. My two best friends both had black hardtop Pontiac GTOs (64 and 65), and I was looking for a black '66. So, in the meantime, the 59er held me over and served as our cruise-mobile as well.

It was late one night, and my friends suggested that we go up the hill to where the hospital had its mental ward. Word was "they let them out at night". I wasn't keen on it but after a bit of bantering and bravado, we finally headed to the "loony bin" to see what we could see (with thoughts from the horror movies of course).

As we slowly drove in, I recall a brick-walled perimeter with a gate, which was open, and the huge old brick hospital inside on the left. The drive circled around to the right. As we were peering though the darkness, looking out for anyone wearing white-pajamas, I slowly and unknowingly rolled up over a speed bump... only to have the car's frame bottom out completely - now firmly planted and going nowhere. Of course, by now, we're all freakin' because the crazies and the cops were certainly going to catch us!

That's when I told both of my friends... they needed to get out, and lift the car off its suspension. Then I could back up over the speed bump. "Hell No! Am I ****ing going out there!" was the reply. "Got a better idea?" was probably the rebuttal.

Finally, they went out to the front of the car, lifting it by the front bumper, just enough for me to roll clear.

And then...

 

You must have had that car slammed to high-center on a speed bump.

 

Did I forget to mention the rusty rockers i.e. there were none.

 

Found it! This is when I first bought the car - 1975. My first was a '57 Chevy 150 2-door.

Some chrome side pipes would have fit neatly where the rockers would have been.


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You guys do know about Revology.com correct?
Pretty much the best of all worlds if you want the old and the new. Not resto-mods....new 1960s cars...new-new with all modern stuff.
$175-220k.
We toured their place and met the owners. Exceptional folks.

 

SORRY...
revologycars.com

 

I dont even like American cars....but, come on now: https://revologycars.com/car/1966-mustang-gt-22-fastback/

 

Too each their own, which is what's great about cars.

If I were to buy "old but new" for a daily, it may look something like this.

http://www.superchevy.com/features/1812-1955-chevy-built-from-100-percent-new-parts/

https://www.woodyshotrodz.com/


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For $180k, I could recreate the same, probably with a quicker delivery.

My ‘61 Vette (posted earlier) is just as nice, and was half the price, fully finished.

Matt

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Honest question...can you make what they are making for less?

I have a buddy who has Detroit Speed built cars...$400k+

 

I can, and did, make it for less for myself. It was far less than $100k for my Corvette. But few could do it for the same price. I’d expect it to go for higher at auction.

But I wouldn’t do the job for someone else for less. Which is what RevologyCars is selling. A full package curated to your spec.

Matt

 

The coyote quad cam v8 kills it for me. Its a heavy motor and just doesent fit the 60s stang, at least fro me. The rest is awesome

 

If you want to do a resto-mod early 'Vette, I'd PM Smiles/Matt as he's done it and knows the ropes. That's what I'd do. In fact, I'm communicating with f-chat guys who have done Superformance GT40's already.

 

What do you consider "don't like to rev"? Maybe stock but modified not a problem. (have turbo engines doing 1500hp and just under 8k rpm on a hyd roller) Even more power/rpm with solid roller.

Have not noticed any vibration issues myself.

 

I had a Datusn 510 that did it all the time and it was not all that low. It was also so stiff that if I went in a driveway diagonally it would teeter on 2 wheels and only the posi rear end got me unstuck.

 

I saw a pic of a 360 that had only three wheels down as a guy tried to get it up a sloped driveway in the 360 forum here. It was pretty funny. I have to come in at an angle to get mine up the apron without scraping the nose, but nothing like that.

 

There is a dfifference between being able to rev and likes to rev. A small ferrari v12 likes to rev, its a sweet motor that always feels like it wants more. What we might call a sweet motor or a round engine. A porche flat 6 likes to rev also. Those two are one extreme.

As to vibes, once chev went past the 327 the stoke became longer the rod ratios worse and there are all sorts of secondary vibes. A ford 302 by contrast is a much smoother engine at revs as is a 351. I would guess that rod ratios and maybe the internaly balaced crank on the fords is the difference.

The Chevs from 350 cubes on up, feel gravely at revs. While they can rev, and wont blow, they dont feel like they love it up there, theyre also not snappy motors.

Yes the new chev blocks can hold together with +1500hp, yes the parts are plentiful to build a 750 hp motor easily, yes it will hold together, and yes it has lots of second order vibes, what was called NVH in some circles.

As for my experience with these motors which I mention because that sometimes is a line of attack by people who dont like whats being said, and because I have somewhat limted experince compared to others; I have had 3 cars with chev 350's, 1 car with a built 383 solid rollers injected etc which was more powerful but worse because the longer stroke made it even more vibratey, and that one was a rare internaly balanced chev motor with all the good bits. I had a boat with a 351W which was sweet as a nut, and a boat with a 350 whitch had lots of second order vibes, I have injected boat now with the new 6.2 and its not better.

I drove a C6 z06 fairly extensively, it sure made power, but also had lots of second order vibes and didnt love sitting at revs.

The ford thing started for me when I went in friends old fox mustang when it was new and I had a camaro with a 350, they way that 302 wound out, that was big contrast tot the chevy. Frankly even the 5th gen camaro i drove for a week wasnt great, yeah it had power, but really didnt love to rev out, by contrast I had a built 302 in a car that was just sweet and snappy.

Objectively if the motor makes the desired power and holds together which a chev does, it makes no difference that it has second order vibes. But there is somethign very subjectivly appealing about a sweet motor that smooth and loves to rev out, and on the open road while rolling such a motor makes for quicker run.

If one built a cobra replica, for sure you could do a ford or a chev at 450-500 hp easily. For sure the ford 302 would cost morethan a chev to get to that number and a proper 427 lots more, like double. I'm certain the chev would easily make 500hp for less work and money than either ford at 450. But the chev would not feel as round or smooth as the ford, nor would the chev love to rev out with the same ease or urgency as the ford either, stokes and rod ratios count for a lot. True most people just cruise around and occasionaly hit it so woudnt notice, but go for nice brisk run and the difference is marked even if the hp is the same.

I also dotn think there is a TT ford that you can buy that makes 1500hp, its all chev because the blocks are now better developed, stronger for this type of application/hp and the market has spoken.

I'l be interestign to see how the new chev quad cams perform. Im sure they are going to be really smooth motors as all cammers are, with a big rev range and lots of power everywhere, although maybe not the low down slug as a 2 valve motor. the quad cammers will also be way heavier and bigger than the lsx.

My favorite motor of all time is the early 90s Zr1 mtor, that baby sounds the best and yes it loves to rev, it also has very different bore and stroke to chev 350.

 

Back when they had the Champ Car races in Houston. It was a hoot. You'd hear all the flat plane cars go by sounding cool as hell. And then, and then, you would hear something primordial, something primitive, something very angry, coming down the track, gawd the Vettes were mean as hell sounding.

 

boxerman, if by can rev I don't mean it peaked at 6k and tanked power struggling to 7900. It peaked at 7500 and barely dropped off by redline.

Certainly not trying to come at you with any line of attack, just not noticing the tendencies you have mentioned. Not to mention, I didn't design the thing I just work on them. Have done a lot of c6z's and have not noticed any rotational vibration issues (and really have never been able to distinguish any vibration difference between engines at different rod/stroke ratios).

I would say/agree a dohc engine is a more refined feel/sound than any pushrod engine. Mercury marine makes a 4 valve LS based engine that makes 750 at 8k naturally aspirated. That sounds pretty nice but it's big money.