Hey folks, thanks a lot for these interesting replies. Somehow I missed one FChat message about new replies and thought, that there's no interest in this subject. I'm still not completely sure whether to buy or not. But mainly because of the huge shipping costs, taxes and duty. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Hi everyone. I had a quick look at 842/2006. It's drawn following the Kyoto Protocol on Greenhouse Emissions. To me, it's really nothing to write home about. It refers to "stationary applications", not sure whether these include automotive A/C systems, but I would think so. However, in article 3, it requires the operators to check periodically the systems for leakage of fluorinated greenhouse gases. But this applies to systems above 3, 30 and 300 kg. of fluid. No car has that much fluid. On a Ferrari 308/328 I would expect somethng around 700 grams. Art. 9, further specifies "Placing on the market 1. The placing on the market of products and equipment containing, or whose functioning relies upon, fluorinated greenhouse gases, as listed in Annex II shall be prohibited as specified in that Annex. 2. Paragraph 1 shall not apply to products and equipment shown to be manufactured before the date of entry into force of the relevant placing on the market prohibition." This makes sense, it happened already with R12, and I woud expect to be the same in the future. In a nutshell, whatever fluid you have in your car, and it's working and not leaking, just leave it the way it is. It simply means that an outdated gas can't be sold anymore and all systems, new and old, must be filled/refilled with a compliant gas. The real point is how effective is the A/C system on these cars. For one, in the '80s, most automotive A/C systems were "botched up". The middle east wasn't that big a market as it is today. So A/C systems were kind of "weak" back then, especially on Euro cars. If you put a different gas in, I mean a gas for which the system is not designed, it's reasonable to expect a yet weaker performance. R134 works fine in systems that are designed to work with it. If you want to use "future" fluids, you've got to be sure that you're choosing the right one (it's a bet, they may change their mind at the last minute, it happened already), and then go for a system that works efficiently with it. My suggestions is to study the A/C system, and approach the problem as we do when we want more torque or more HPs from the engine. Know what you're dealing with and do a proper job. That means redisigning the system with state of the art equipment, including probably custom made parts.
If your car is a Euro then it would already have a Sanden compressor so this part of the upgrade would not be necessary surely? Or is it a larger Sanden which they are using?
"It refers to "stationary applications", not sure whether these include automotive A/C systems, but I would think so." IMO that sentence does NOT apply to vehicles since vehicles/stationary are two entirely different applications. There are existing similar differences between stationary and vehicular systems wherein certain refrigerants, such as the propane derivatives are approved for stationery systems but not for vehicles. So there would have to be specific wording about vehicles if the rule/law/protocol/agreement covers them OR it would have to just say "All Applications." Cars and buildings do not currently use the same refrigerant and there is nothing I read that says they will or could (or should).
Alonso came 3rd in Silverstone GP, good race overall... I dont' know, you might be right, I quickly looked at this EU reg. as it was mentioned in a previous post, so I assumed it's applicable. But I didn't investigate further. To me the point remains that if you have an A/C that is working and not leaking, you're not required to do anything. If you're upgrading the system, you just need to comply with current regulations, especially if the system is expected to work reliably for a long time.
Was this necessary to include in A/C discussion?! I was interested in learning about aftermarket A/C systems not a result of a race that have not been broadcasted in the US.
it is Euro, but is has an Aspera compressor. As far as I know, the Aspera is identical with the York. BTW, when the system worked for the last time, there was a slight leak on the pulley's seal and I really don't want to mess with any repair of this old thing. It's not the manufacturer, that matters, but the fact, that the old compressors, condensers... the whole systems were designed for use with R12 and the new ones for R134a. Best Regards Martin
Martin, I just installed a couple cans of ES12 into my old Aspera powered system and it's quite wonderful. It actually has a slightly lower operating psi than R12 and it undoubtly works better than anything I have ever tried. Shoot me a pm if you want me to get a couple cans out to you as I believe the sellers in the US are not selling outside the US!
What is York pulley diameter for R210R, (Aspera) HG 1000 AP ??? I am trying to replace compressor and clutch, but MOST Yorks come Without pulley. I am guessing this is because so many York applications yield so many different pulley clutch diameters. Mine is OE on 1984 400i GT, S/N 49041. HELP. Thanks in advance
Question, most of the upgrade threads note the use of the Sanden SH7D15, which is only rated to 6,000 RPM. Sanden offers the SDV series, rated to 8,000 RPM. Would this be a better choice? I read hearsay they the factory York was application specified for high RPM, anyone know of documentation on this?
I installed the Retro Air kit and was totally satisfied. I live in Florida and find the AC works even on 100 degree days as long as the car does not get sun soaked while parked. If so then it takes a while for the AC to cool things. Now I am careful to cover the windshield when parked, otherwise my dash get too hot to touch. I found Retro Air to be very responsive to my questions and I made several suggestions for improvements. My LP charging ports was hidden by the intake snorkel but I think they have move the charging port. I installed new fans so they ask to borrow my original fans to see if they could improve for customers who want to keep their original fans. They know AC, do not know the 308 very well but they want feedback and are willing to learn.
If you declare / disclose the contents, that package will never be allowed to cross outside the US border. If you do not disclose (accurately), and Customs opens that package for random inspection, you are seriously going to regret that generous act .
FWIW, my factory Sanden compressor is labelled SD507 (see pictures in this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/456831-308-qv-ac-compressor-easy-removal-without-removing-studs.html )
First impression from opening my kit is that everything is well put together. I'm very happy with the quality of the components. After unpacking I began the process of installing the condenser. Because I have a custom radiator the supplied mounting brackets wouldn't work so I quickly fabled my own. After everything fits perfect I'll tweak them and get them powder coated. Late today I began the evaporator and fan assembly but didn't get far. Everything seems to fit perfectly and the Spal replacement fans are top notch. The only con I can say so far is that if you like very detailed Ikea-ish directions you're in trouble. It comes with instructions and photos but it requires that you basically look at the parts and photos and infer how to assemble everything with just a few lines of copy. If you need detailed diagrams that explain every nut and bolt with perfect clarity you might be in trouble. More to come... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That's just how they come because it can be used for other vehicle applications. You only use the one belt on one pulley.
I have read the article about that condenser and the surface area - but it still just *seems* too small to work well, especially with 134.
Yeah I am very curious about this as well, I think it will be fine as that type of condenser is tons more efficient. I can tell you this though, that condenser features thin flat tubes and the condenser itself is thinner by about half an inch over the stock unit which has big tubes snaking through which unfortunately block a ton of airflow to the radiator not to mention that the laminar flow coming from the stock condenser is pretty darn hot. Tons more air will flow through the new condenser but either side of this new unit does present a bit of blockage. I've toyed with the idea of getting a 12 x 24 modern condenser in there (the above unit is 12x20) but it might be difficult, flow to the radiator core certainly could be restricted though and two modern 12" fans could be attached to the front much easier.
How? My problem is I won't get it running for awhile. I'm doing some engine work and by the time I get everything back in one piece it's gonna be who knows how long.
What model SPAL fan do they supply? Seems like all of the modern fans have low profile motor that would not work in the stock mounting bracket.
