Retroair A/C upgrade for 308

You don't use the stock mounting brackets with these types of fans.

 

I'm thinking a big 16" fan mounted right in the center of the condenser might be the best option. I just can't see two 12" fans mounting correctly to that condenser. They would stick out the ends a bit

 

Has anyone used and had any luck with Enviro-safe refrigerant and if so what were the results? It is a replacement for R134a and is "supposed" to be colder than R12.

Industrial R134a Replacement Refrigerant Details and Online Ordering at Enviro-Safe, Inc

 

There is only a +12v wire from the unit. Need to ground the casing with another wire. Lug on front bolt works fine.

 

Would it not be grounded through the mounting bolts to the engine?

 

Most are --- but you should do a quick continuity check to verify --- a very good ground is essential for any A/C comp clutch.

 

Not sure. I did a check with the olds one side by side and I'd WAG they are just about the same in OA size.

Correct. They supply a laser cut plate that goes inside the evap case and the fan unite bolts to that from the outside. The openings for the new fan are a little wider and a little shorter.

I think I'm going to mount two pullers in the back of the radiator. I'm fabbing a custom enclosure for the front boot that uses the factory mounting points and possibly ditch the spare or go with a donut.

Thanks! I'll make a note of that.

 

I have forgotten the issue but I think the case that mounts to the mounting bracket was electrically insulated. The bolts in front were the ticket.

 

I have received my kits but have not started installation, pls keep us posted on your progress. Thanks

 

The deal with grounding is that what you need to ground is the EM coil on the clutch --- the compressor itself is not an electrical device.

On some units, there is built-in continuity (often via an internal connection) between the clutch coil and the compressor housing so that you can ground through the compressor mounting points. However, some units have the clutch coil and the compressor housing electrically de-coupled.

Best way to check while the unit is still on the bench, is to put one Ohm meter probe on the +12V supply lead (goes to the coil), and then start surveying with the other probe at various spots on the compressor body and its mounting lugs ---- look for paths that have about a 3-5 Ohm resistance (typical resistance of just the coil itself). Then any of those which you identify can be used for grounding to the car chassis / engine block.

@ HOTSHOE ---

It looks like the one you have there in the box will likely have continuity through the compressor body --- but you should verify that. Putting a separate ground wire on one of the front cover bolts (just behind the clutch) is a little tricky --- as it must be securely held and routed clearly away from the rotating clutch / pulley assembly and the A/C belt --- best to avoid that all together and ground through the body mounting if possible.

 

Two puller fans is a perfect idea. I'd do it too if I didn't want my spare tire holder left alone. Would love to see pics of your solution!

 

Also known as ES12. I have used and installed this stuff on 5 older Ferrari's still using stock Aspera compressors and it is brilliant stuff. The program I enlisted with these cars was simple, new oil in the compressor, change hoses that needed changing, changed all o-rings, new expansion valve, new dryer, test for leaks, install two cans of ES12, done.

ES12 requires less compression to work well and is indeed colder than R12 IMO. Yes it's a hydrocarbon byproduct but it's flammability requires very high pressure and heat to be at all dangerous. I'm more concerned about the two fuel tanks actually....

The only thing I might add to this is I might upgrade the evaporator fan because the volume of air is pretty poor, and I might also replace the a/c condenser with a new modern unit (retrofit) which doesn't block air to the radiator so much and works better all around.

 

When you design these along with the correct mounts for your radiator I am in for one!

 

Hopefully it works. I'm trying to use all the existing factory mounting points so it can be returned to original. Just can't decide yet if it's gonna be aluminum or carbon/kevlar. I want it to look 100% factory.

Removing the spare or going with a donut frees up all that space and allows for a better cooling solution. Something similar to the Speciale or F40 LM bonnet.

I just don't see the need for a full-size spare that takes up all that room and weight. In my entire life I've only needed a spare twice. Of course, now I'll get three flat tires today alone for saying that!

 

You definitely have to do something about the airflow coming from the radiator, and it sounds like you're on the right track with perhaps using a aluminum shroud or something. Otherwise radiator airflow will deflect into the cabin and we don't want that!

 

BTW, if anyone has any concerns, needs advice, wants to rejuvenate their R!2 system or change out to R134a....... or anything. Call Joe at Polar Bear, Inc., and let him help you ---- he knows his stuff, is extremely helpful, and has great prices on anything you could want.

Polar Bear, Inc.

 

I think it will help but having torn the entire car down to the frame I'd say radiant heat thru the front bulkhead is more an issue.

On my car, a Euro, you literally have MAYBE an 1/8" of fiberglass insulating you from all that heat. Not to mention all the little holes from the heat to leak in from. Especially the accelerator hole.

I'm going to try using two layers of dynamite on the front bulkhead surfaces where possible. Their standard dynamt extreme and they 1/2" thick heat blocker (forgot product name).

 

I recently purchased the Retroair compressor upgrade kit for my 308 QV. As you may know, the installation instructions are not that detailed.

Does anyone know where the 3/8" x 1/2" spacer should be installed?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bill

 

Bill: call Rock at Retroair, he is experience and helpful. I installed their kit on my '84 308 Euro and it works perfectly. You can PM me for pics, etc. But I do not remember a spacer - it was 3 years ago.

 

I'm using r12. Nothing changed. It's ice cold. I just need more air flow and more vents. Like to know what fan motor they are using to gain more air flow. Call them about the spacer. I don't know where the spacer goes but I use to live in Hernando Beach up the road from you. In fact I still own a home and extra lot there. Want to buy a small island? I own one on the mouth of the Homosassa River I'd like to sell.

 

I have emailed and called Retroair several times and have not received return emails of phone calls.

 

I want to second working with Joe at Polar Bear. He and his wife are great to work with.

 

Re enviro safe:

I have to laugh a bit at this caution on their site: "Flammable to an open flame or spark, proceed with caution if used in systems designed for non-flammable refrigerants."

"systems designed for non-flammable refrigerants" includes all auto systems. I'm not criticizing the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants, I use it myself on my 328 (DuraCool). It's just that I find the caution amusing since they are selling it specifically for systems that it is NOT designed for. AND, of course, it gives them an "out" if you blow yourself up working with it! They can always say, "Well, you shouldn't have been using it for that purpose.

Again, I use such refrigerant and have been for 5-6 years. It works great. I just ensure I don't light up a cigar when I'm installing it.

 

I swapped out my compressor a couple weeks ago using a fit from GT Car parts in Arizona. Basically all we had to do was clean out my old lines, install the compressor and fittings to connect to the old system, and your off and running. It blows ice cold and doesn't bog the motor down when you turn it on. I've had the car out in 115 degree weather and it works great. I pulled my York out about 10 years ago but kept all the hardware intact in the car when I was using it for a track day car, so I was kind of shocked when it bolted right in and so far has worked flawlessly.
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