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SAE Corrected Dyno Charts for Vinces 348 SS

Discussion in '348/355' started by gothspeed, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    goth
    #1 gothspeed, Mar 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the chronology....... run 004 was baseline (no mods) ..................... run 008 was intake/TB's mod............. run 011 is todays run with an ND 'pink chip'.............. the numbers are slightly changed from previous charts/posts, because ALL numbers NOW have SAE Correction. 'SAE Correction' takes into account Ambient Temperature and Humidity conditions for chart generation/calculation. This is essential for acurate comparison of Dyno runs done on different days.

    It apears we are getting more air in the 'front door'..... now we need to open up the 'back door' to get the air out!! Vince's car has stock ceramic cats and stock 348SS muffler. A custom fabbed true 'X-pipe' exhaust/muffler is next on the itinerary :cool:....... we should see 'double digit' gains when that comes into play....... :)! The charts below show the very modest gains and a nominal progression in our quest for HP..... ;).
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  3. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2005
    86,831
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    Very cool boys!! :):)
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Nice work!


    If you didn't see any detonation at any rpm-level for your low octane fuel, then we can bump up the pink chips some more without undue risk.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    There was not any discernable detonation .... :) ............. now do you think we should leave the pink chips for the upcoming exhaust or go all out on the chips 'then' change the exhaust?
     
  6. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2005
    86,831
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    Id tune the pink chips to the up-coming exhaust mate. :):)
     
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  8. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    Thats what I was thinking...... :eek: ................ the 'custom exhaust' should allow the 'intake mods' to play a bigger part in the HP too :)
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    You need to buy two chip extenders. That way you won't be taking the Motronic boxes apart anymore...you'll just pop in chips from the outside.

    Here's a chip extender. With two of these (and cables at the same site) you can move the ECU chip socket to outside of the Motronic ECU boxes, allowing you to swap chips without taking each Motronic ECU apart each time: http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=172

    The ribbon cables that you need are for sale at that same site.

    With two chip extenders installed, you can then swap out chips while Vince's 348 is physically on the dyno. This will allow you to test a hardware change (e.g. new exhaust) with your stock chips, with the pink chips, and with whatever new chips we decide that we want.
     
  10. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    Brilliant :D!! The best 'chip to mod' combo will be found a lot sooner..... :D!!!
     
  11. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Yup. Go buy those two extenders and cables. Then install them and make certain that you are working by switching out the pink and OEM chips and doing normal city driving. NOTE: you'll need some sort of non-conductive box (cardboard would suffice temporarily) for each chip extender...can't let those PC boards touch metal.

    With the above confirmed, I can send you pink + chips. One set bumped up +5 on the spark advance and fuel maps...another set bumped up +10, etc.

    Then when you get to the dyno, you can pop in the chips sets in stages, so long as the previous set experienced no detonation.

    Plus, this would also allow you to pop in a higher level chip set if you made it to the track and had 100+ octane race fuel.
     
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  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    20,341
    socal
    I made a jig to copy the challenge tube exhaust and I have test pipes with screwins for the 02 sensors. My copy challenge tube exhaust is very authentic including the crossover resonator chamber. Do you guys want to borrow them for the next test?
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    20,341
    socal
    ND,

    Notice that at about 2800rpm the Calif smog test rpm the baseline chart is at 14.7/1 for smog. The pink chip is at 14/1? Do you know how much to tweek the pink chip to get it to 14.7/1 and maybe it can pass a smog test but still provide more power everywhere else? Is that easily doable or a greedy request?
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Sideways
    Install the chip extenders. Then you just swap out street and track chips as desired.
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    I think I wasted huge money on an education and can't get my money back. Doh!
     
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Here are the "Pink" changes made to the 348 Spider OEM chip's fuel and spark maps. You'll note that this was a very conservative chip (and delivered only a modest 3.5Hp increase):

    Hex.Adr |.Pink.|.OEM.
    --------+-----+------
    .006BBE.|..24..|..21
    .006BBF.|..26..|..22
    .006BC0.|..29..|..25
    .006BC1.|..2D..|..28
    .006BC2.|..2F..|..2A
    .006BC3.|..32..|..2D
    .006BC4.|..37..|..31
    .006BC5.|..3C..|..36
    .006BC6.|..45..|..3D
    .006BC7.|..46..|..3F
    .006BC8.|..49..|..42
    .006BC9.|..49..|..42
    .006BCA.|..49..|..42
    .006BCB.|..48..|..41
    .006BCC.|..47..|..3F
    .006BCD.|..50..|..43
    .006BE0.|..24..|..21
    .006BE1.|..26..|..22
    .006BE2.|..29..|..25
    .006BE3.|..2D..|..28
    .006BE4.|..2F..|..2A
    .006BE5.|..32..|..2D
    .006BE6.|..37..|..31
    .006BE7.|..3C..|..36
    .006BE8.|..45..|..3D
    .006BE9.|..46..|..3F
    .006BEA.|..49..|..42
    .006BEB.|..49..|..42
    .006BEC.|..49..|..42
    .006BED.|..48..|..41
    .006BEE.|..47..|..3F
    .006BEF.|..50..|..43
    .006C02.|..25..|..21
    .006C03.|..28..|..22
    .006C04.|..2C..|..25
    .006C05.|..2F..|..28
    .006C06.|..33..|..2A
    .006C07.|..36..|..2D
    .006C08.|..39..|..31
    .006C09.|..3E..|..36
    .006C0A.|..45..|..3D
    .006C0B.|..47..|..3F
    .006C0C.|..53..|..42
    .006C0D.|..53..|..42
    .006C0E.|..53..|..42
    .006C0F.|..52..|..41
    .006C10.|..49..|..3F
    .006C11.|..54..|..43
    .006C46.|..30..|..2D
    .006C47.|..30..|..2D
    .006C48.|..30..|..2D
    .006C49.|..31..|..2D
    .006C4A.|..32..|..2E
    .006C4B.|..32..|..2E
    .006C4C.|..32..|..2E
    .006C4D.|..31..|..2D
    .006C4E.|..30..|..2C
    .006C4F.|..2E..|..2A
    .006C50.|..2E..|..2A
    .006C51.|..2E..|..2A
    .006C52.|..33..|..2F
    .006C53.|..34..|..30
    .006C54.|..35..|..31
    .006C55.|..36..|..32
    .006C56.|..37..|..33
    .006C57.|..37..|..33
    .006C58.|..36..|..32
    .006C59.|..34..|..30
    .006C5A.|..33..|..2E
    .006C5B.|..32..|..2D
    .006C5C.|..32..|..2D
    .006C5D.|..32..|..2D
    .006C5E.|..37..|..34
    .006C5F.|..38..|..34
    .006C60.|..39..|..35
    .006C61.|..3A..|..36
    .006C62.|..3B..|..37
    .006C63.|..3C..|..38
    .006C64.|..3A..|..36
    .006C65.|..39..|..34
    .006C66.|..37..|..32
    .006C67.|..35..|..30
    .006C68.|..34..|..30
    .006C69.|..34..|..30
    .006C6A.|..40..|..3C
    .006C6B.|..41..|..3D
    .006C6C.|..42..|..3D
    .006C6D.|..43..|..3E
    .006C6E.|..44..|..3F
    .006C6F.|..45..|..40
    .006C70.|..42..|..3D
    .006C71.|..40..|..3B
    .006C72.|..3E..|..39
    .006C73.|..3D..|..38
    .006C74.|..3C..|..38
    .006C75.|..3C..|..38
    .006C76.|..4C..|..46
    .006C77.|..4E..|..48
    .006C78.|..50..|..4A
    .006C79.|..52..|..4C
    .006C7A.|..50..|..4B
    .006C7B.|..4F..|..4A
    .006C7C.|..4E..|..49
    .006C7D.|..4B..|..45
    .006C7E.|..49..|..43
    .006C7F.|..48..|..42
    .006C80.|..45..|..40
    .006C81.|..47..|..41
    .006C82.|..57..|..52
    .006C83.|..58..|..53
    .006C84.|..5A..|..54
    .006C85.|..5B..|..54
    .006C86.|..57..|..50
    .006C87.|..55..|..4E
    .006C88.|..53..|..4C
    .006C89.|..4D..|..47
    .006C8A.|..4C..|..46
    .006C8B.|..4B..|..45
    .006C8C.|..4A..|..44
    .006C8D.|..47..|..41
    .006C8E.|..59..|..53
    .006C8F.|..5C..|..55
    .006C90.|..5B..|..54
    .006C91.|..52..|..4B
    .006C92.|..51..|..4A
    .006C93.|..4F..|..49
    .006C94.|..4E..|..47
    .006C95.|..4D..|..46
    .006C96.|..4A..|..44
    .006C97.|..48..|..42
    .006C98.|..49..|..43
    .006C99.|..44..|..3F
    .006C9A.|..5D..|..57
    .006C9B.|..5E..|..57
    .006C9C.|..5A..|..52
    .006C9D.|..57..|..50
    .006C9E.|..55..|..4E
    .006C9F.|..51..|..4A
    .006CA0.|..4F..|..49
    .006CA1.|..4E..|..48
    .006CA2.|..4B..|..45
    .006CA3.|..4C..|..46
    .006CA4.|..49..|..43
    .006CA5.|..43..|..3D
    .006CA6.|..5F..|..58
    .006CA7.|..61..|..5B
    .006CA8.|..64..|..5C
    .006CA9.|..59..|..51
    .006CAA.|..54..|..4D
    .006CAB.|..51..|..4A
    .006CAC.|..4F..|..49
    .006CAD.|..4E..|..48
    .006CAE.|..4C..|..45
    .006CAF.|..4B..|..45
    .006CB0.|..48..|..41
    .006CB1.|..43..|..3D
    .006CB2.|..60..|..59
    .006CB3.|..61..|..59
    .006CB4.|..60..|..59
    .006CB5.|..5B..|..53
    .006CB6.|..4E..|..48
    .006CB7.|..51..|..4B
    .006CB8.|..50..|..4A
    .006CB9.|..4F..|..48
    .006CBA.|..4E..|..48
    .006CBB.|..4D..|..46
    .006CBC.|..4D..|..46
    .006CBD.|..4C..|..46
    .006D14.|..92..|..8D
    .006D15.|..81..|..7D
    .006D16.|..72..|..6F
    .006D17.|..70..|..6C
    .006D18.|..8F..|..8A
    .006D19.|..8E..|..89
    .006D1A.|..84..|..80
    .006D1B.|..7B..|..77
    .006D1C.|..8F..|..8A
    .006D1D.|..8A..|..86
    .006D1E.|..89..|..85
    .006D1F.|..8A..|..85
    .006D20.|..8F..|..8D
    .006D21.|..8E..|..89
    .006D22.|..8B..|..86
    .006D23.|..8A..|..86
    .006D24.|..92..|..8D
    .006D25.|..90..|..8B
    .006D26.|..8D..|..88
    .006D27.|..8C..|..88
    .006D28.|..92..|..8D
    .006D29.|..93..|..8D
    .006D2A.|..8C..|..87
    .006D2B.|..8A..|..86
    .006D2C.|..92..|..8D
    .006D2D.|..91..|..8C
    .006D2E.|..90..|..8B
    .006D2F.|..8B..|..86
    .006D30.|..91..|..8C
    .006D31.|..90..|..8B
    .006D32.|..91..|..8C
    .006D33.|..92..|..8C
    .006D34.|..90..|..8A
    .006D35.|..91..|..8B
    .006D36.|..8E..|..89
    .006D37.|..8C..|..87
    .006D38.|..94..|..8F
    .006D39.|..95..|..8F
    .006D3A.|..94..|..8E
    .006D3B.|..90..|..8A
    .006D3C.|..9B..|..96
    .006D3D.|..9C..|..96
    .006D3E.|..9B..|..95
    .006D3F.|..9A..|..95
    .006D40.|..9E..|..99
    .006D41.|..9D..|..98
    .006D42.|..9C..|..96
    .006D43.|..9C..|..96
    .006D44.|..9D..|..97
    .006D45.|..9C..|..96
    .006D46.|..9A..|..95
    .006D47.|..97..|..92
    .006DA0.|..85..|..81
    .006DA1.|..84..|..80
    .006DA2.|..84..|..80
    .006DA3.|..83..|..7F
    .006DA4.|..82..|..7E
    .006DA5.|..83..|..7F
    .006DA6.|..84..|..80
    .006DA7.|..83..|..7F
    .006DA8.|..88..|..84
    .006DA9.|..8C..|..88
    .006DAA.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DAB.|..8F..|..8B
    .006DAC.|..88..|..84
    .006DAD.|..88..|..84
    .006DAE.|..86..|..82
    .006DAF.|..85..|..81
    .006DB0.|..85..|..81
    .006DB1.|..86..|..82
    .006DB2.|..88..|..84
    .006DB3.|..89..|..85
    .006DB4.|..8B..|..87
    .006DB5.|..90..|..8C
    .006DB6.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DB7.|..91..|..8D
    .006DB8.|..89..|..85
    .006DB9.|..88..|..84
    .006DBA.|..88..|..84
    .006DBB.|..87..|..83
    .006DBC.|..89..|..85
    .006DBD.|..88..|..84
    .006DBE.|..89..|..86
    .006DBF.|..8A..|..86
    .006DC0.|..8D..|..89
    .006DC1.|..92..|..8E
    .006DC2.|..94..|..90
    .006DC3.|..95..|..91
    .006DC4.|..89..|..85
    .006DC5.|..88..|..84
    .006DC6.|..8A..|..86
    .006DC7.|..88..|..84
    .006DC8.|..8B..|..87
    .006DC9.|..8B..|..87
    .006DCA.|..8C..|..88
    .006DCB.|..8D..|..89
    .006DCC.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DCD.|..90..|..8D
    .006DCE.|..91..|..8E
    .006DCF.|..92..|..8F
    .006DD0.|..8C..|..88
    .006DD1.|..89..|..85
    .006DD2.|..89..|..85
    .006DD3.|..8C..|..88
    .006DD4.|..8D..|..89
    .006DD5.|..91..|..8D
    .006DD6.|..92..|..8E
    .006DD7.|..93..|..8F
    .006DD8.|..95..|..91
    .006DD9.|..96..|..92
    .006DDA.|..97..|..94
    .006DDB.|..98..|..95
    .006DDC.|..8D..|..89
    .006DDD.|..8A..|..86
    .006DDE.|..8A..|..86
    .006DDF.|..8D..|..89
    .006DE0.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DE1.|..91..|..8D
    .006DE2.|..94..|..90
    .006DE3.|..94..|..90
    .006DE4.|..95..|..92
    .006DE5.|..96..|..92
    .006DE6.|..97..|..94
    .006DE7.|..98..|..95
    .006DE8.|..8F..|..8B
    .006DE9.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DEA.|..8D..|..89
    .006DEB.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DEC.|..8E..|..8A
    .006DED.|..92..|..8E
    .006DEE.|..93..|..90
    .006DEF.|..94..|..91
    .006DF0.|..95..|..92
    .006DF1.|..96..|..93
    .006DF2.|..97..|..94
    .006DF3.|..98..|..95
    .006F28.|..2F..|..28
    .006F29.|..35..|..2D
    .006F2A.|..3A..|..31
    .006F2B.|..44..|..39
    .006F2C.|..46..|..39
    .006F2D.|..4D..|..3E
    .006F2E.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F2F.|..46..|..39
    .006F30.|..4A..|..3D
    .006F31.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F32.|..50..|..41
    .006F33.|..51..|..41
    .006F34.|..52..|..41
    .006F35.|..52..|..41
    .006F36.|..53..|..41
    .006F37.|..54..|..44
    .006F4A.|..2F..|..28
    .006F4B.|..35..|..2D
    .006F4C.|..3A..|..31
    .006F4D.|..44..|..39
    .006F4E.|..46..|..39
    .006F4F.|..4D..|..3E
    .006F50.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F51.|..46..|..39
    .006F52.|..4A..|..3D
    .006F53.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F54.|..50..|..41
    .006F55.|..51..|..41
    .006F56.|..52..|..41
    .006F57.|..52..|..41
    .006F58.|..53..|..41
    .006F59.|..54..|..44
    .006F6C.|..2F..|..28
    .006F6D.|..35..|..2D
    .006F6E.|..3A..|..31
    .006F6F.|..44..|..39
    .006F70.|..46..|..39
    .006F71.|..4D..|..3E
    .006F72.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F73.|..46..|..39
    .006F74.|..4A..|..3D
    .006F75.|..4C..|..3D
    .006F76.|..50..|..41
    .006F77.|..51..|..41
    .006F78.|..52..|..41
    .006F79.|..52..|..41
    .006F7A.|..53..|..41
    .006F7B.|..54..|..44
    .006FB0.|..99..|..93
    .006FB1.|..97..|..91
    .006FB2.|..96..|..90
    .006FB3.|..96..|..90
    .006FB4.|..98..|..92
    .006FB5.|..98..|..92
    .006FB6.|..98..|..92
    .006FB7.|..97..|..91
    .006FB8.|..94..|..8E
    .006FB9.|..93..|..8D
    .006FBA.|..92..|..8C
    .006FBB.|..93..|..8D
    .006FBC.|..95..|..8F
    .006FBD.|..94..|..8E
    .006FBE.|..93..|..8D
    .006FBF.|..94..|..8E
    .006FC0.|..96..|..90
    .006FC1.|..95..|..8F
    .006FC2.|..93..|..8D
    .006FC3.|..94..|..8E
    .006FC4.|..9A..|..94
    .006FC5.|..99..|..93
    .006FC6.|..97..|..91
    .006FC7.|..95..|..8F
    .006FC8.|..9D..|..97
    .006FC9.|..9B..|..95
    .006FCA.|..98..|..92
    .006FCB.|..96..|..90
    .006FCC.|..9D..|..98
    .006FCD.|..9C..|..96
    .006FCE.|..9B..|..95
    .006FCF.|..99..|..93
    .006FD0.|..A5..|..A1
    .006FD1.|..A3..|..9F
    .006FD2.|..A2..|..9D
    .006FD3.|..A1..|..9D
    .007016.|..23..|..21
    .007017.|..25..|..22
    .007018.|..29..|..25
    .007019.|..2C..|..28
    .00701A.|..30..|..2A
    .00701B.|..35..|..2D
    .00701C.|..3B..|..31
    .00701D.|..3F..|..36
    .00701E.|..46..|..3C
    .00701F.|..51..|..42
    .007020.|..52..|..43
    .007021.|..51..|..42
    .007022.|..51..|..42
    .007023.|..51..|..42
    .007024.|..50..|..41
    .007025.|..51..|..42
    .007038.|..23..|..21
    .007039.|..25..|..22
    .00703A.|..29..|..25
    .00703B.|..2C..|..28
    .00703C.|..30..|..2A
    .00703D.|..35..|..2D
    .00703E.|..3B..|..31
    .00703F.|..3F..|..36
    .007040.|..46..|..3C
    .007041.|..51..|..42
    .007042.|..52..|..43
    .007043.|..51..|..42
    .007044.|..51..|..42
    .007045.|..51..|..42
    .007046.|..50..|..41
    .007047.|..51..|..42
    .00705A.|..23..|..21
    .00705B.|..25..|..22
    .00705C.|..29..|..25
    .00705D.|..2C..|..28
    .00705E.|..30..|..2A
    .00705F.|..35..|..2D
    .007060.|..3B..|..31
    .007061.|..3F..|..36
    .007062.|..46..|..3C
    .007063.|..51..|..42
    .007064.|..52..|..43
    .007065.|..51..|..42
    .007066.|..51..|..42
    .007067.|..51..|..42
    .007068.|..50..|..41
    .007069.|..51..|..42
    .0070D0.|..51..|..4A
    .0070D1.|..54..|..4C
    .0070D2.|..52..|..4B
    .0070D3.|..51..|..4A
    .0070D4.|..50..|..49
    .0070D5.|..4C..|..45
    .0070D6.|..46..|..40
    .0070D7.|..44..|..3E
    .0070D8.|..45..|..3F
    .0070D9.|..46..|..40
    .0070DA.|..5A..|..52
    .0070DB.|..5B..|..53
    .0070DC.|..5C..|..54
    .0070DD.|..5A..|..52
    .0070DE.|..54..|..4C
    .0070DF.|..52..|..4B
    .0070E0.|..50..|..49
    .0070E1.|..4C..|..45
    .0070E2.|..4A..|..43
    .0070E3.|..48..|..41
    .0070E4.|..48..|..41
    .0070E5.|..48..|..41
    .0070E6.|..5B..|..53
    .0070E7.|..5E..|..55
    .0070E8.|..59..|..51
    .0070E9.|..4F..|..48
    .0070EA.|..4E..|..47
    .0070EB.|..4D..|..46
    .0070EC.|..4C..|..45
    .0070ED.|..4A..|..43
    .0070EE.|..48..|..41
    .0070EF.|..45..|..3F
    .0070F0.|..4A..|..43
    .0070F1.|..45..|..3F
    .0070F2.|..5E..|..57
    .0070F3.|..5A..|..53
    .0070F4.|..55..|..4D
    .0070F5.|..52..|..4B
    .0070F6.|..50..|..49
    .0070F7.|..4D..|..46
    .0070F8.|..4C..|..45
    .0070F9.|..49..|..42
    .0070FA.|..4C..|..45
    .0070FB.|..4A..|..43
    .0070FC.|..49..|..43
    .0070FD.|..43..|..3D
    .0070FE.|..60..|..58
    .0070FF.|..62..|..5B
    .007100.|..5C..|..54
    .007101.|..56..|..4E
    .007102.|..51..|..4A
    .007103.|..51..|..4A
    .007104.|..50..|..49
    .007105.|..4D..|..46
    .007106.|..4C..|..45
    .007107.|..4C..|..45
    .007108.|..48..|..41
    .007109.|..43..|..3D
    .00710A.|..60..|..59
    .00710B.|..61..|..59
    .00710C.|..62..|..59
    .00710D.|..5B..|..53
    .00710E.|..4F..|..48
    .00710F.|..52..|..4B
    .007110.|..51..|..4A
    .007111.|..4F..|..48
    .007112.|..4E..|..48
    .007113.|..4D..|..46
    .007114.|..4C..|..46
    .007115.|..4C..|..46
    .007170.|..91..|..8C
    .007171.|..8D..|..88
    .007172.|..82..|..7D
    .007173.|..7A..|..75
    .007174.|..93..|..8E
    .007175.|..91..|..8B
    .007176.|..8C..|..87
    .007177.|..8C..|..87
    .007178.|..94..|..8F
    .007179.|..92..|..8D
    .00717A.|..8E..|..89
    .00717B.|..8D..|..89
    .00717C.|..96..|..91
    .00717D.|..94..|..8F
    .00717E.|..92..|..8C
    .00717F.|..92..|..8C
    .007180.|..95..|..90
    .007181.|..96..|..91
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    .007183.|..91..|..8B
    .007184.|..96..|..91
    .007185.|..95..|..90
    .007186.|..94..|..8F
    .007187.|..90..|..8A
    .007188.|..94..|..8F
    .007189.|..91..|..8C
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    .00718B.|..92..|..8D
    .00718C.|..93..|..8D
    .00718D.|..92..|..8D
    .00718E.|..91..|..8B
    .00718F.|..90..|..8A
    .007190.|..93..|..8E
    .007191.|..95..|..90
    .007192.|..96..|..91
    .007193.|..94..|..8E
    .007194.|..98..|..94
    .007195.|..99..|..95
    .007196.|..98..|..94
    .007197.|..97..|..93
    .007198.|..99..|..95
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    .00719E.|..99..|..93
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    .0071E2.|..82..|..7E
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    .0071E4.|..83..|..7F
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    .0071E6.|..86..|..82
    .0071E7.|..86..|..82
    .0071E8.|..88..|..85
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    .0071EA.|..77..|..74
    .0071EB.|..74..|..71
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    .0071EE.|..82..|..7E
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    .0071F1.|..82..|..7E
    .0071F2.|..83..|..80
    .0071F3.|..84..|..80
    .0071F4.|..86..|..83
    .0071F5.|..87..|..84
    .0071F6.|..7E..|..7B
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    .0071F8.|..82..|..7E
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    .0071FE.|..82..|..7E
    .0071FF.|..82..|..7E
    .007200.|..89..|..86
    .007201.|..8A..|..87
    .007202.|..8C..|..89
    .007203.|..8D..|..8A
    .007204.|..83..|..7F
    .007205.|..82..|..7F
    .007206.|..81..|..7D
    .007207.|..80..|..7C
    .007208.|..7F..|..7B
    .007209.|..7F..|..7B
    .00720A.|..81..|..7D
    .00720B.|..86..|..82
    .00720C.|..8D..|..89
    .00720D.|..90..|..8C
    .00720E.|..91..|..8D
    .00720F.|..93..|..90
    .007210.|..82..|..7E
    .007211.|..81..|..7D
    .007212.|..81..|..7D
    .007213.|..80..|..7C
    .007214.|..81..|..7D
    .007215.|..83..|..7F
    .007216.|..84..|..82
    .007217.|..86..|..82
    .007218.|..8E..|..8B
    .007219.|..89..|..8C
    .00721A.|..90..|..8D
    .00721B.|..91..|..8E
    .00721C.|..81..|..7D
    .00721D.|..80..|..7C
    .00721E.|..82..|..7E
    .00721F.|..83..|..7F
    .007220.|..86..|..82
    .007221.|..8B..|..87
    .007222.|..8E..|..8A
    .007223.|..8E..|..8A
    .007224.|..8F..|..8B
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    .007226.|..92..|..8F
    .007227.|..93..|..90
    .007228.|..8A..|..86
    .007229.|..87..|..83
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    .00722B.|..8A..|..87
    .00722C.|..89..|..86
    .00722D.|..8B..|..88
    .00722E.|..8C..|..89
    .00722F.|..90..|..8C
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    .007232.|..98..|..95
    .007233.|..99..|..96
    .007234.|..8D..|..89
    .007235.|..8A..|..86
    .007236.|..8A..|..86
    .007237.|..8C..|..89
    .007238.|..8D..|..8A
    .007239.|..8F..|..8B
    .00723A.|..92..|..8E
    .00723B.|..94..|..90
    .00723C.|..95..|..92
    .00723D.|..97..|..94
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    .00723F.|..9A..|..96
    .007240.|..89..|..85
    .007241.|..88..|..84
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    .007245.|..90..|..8C
    .007246.|..92..|..8E
    .007247.|..93..|..8F
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    .00725F.|..2C..|..24
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    .007261.|..3E..|..33
    .007262.|..3F..|..34
    .007263.|..42..|..36
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    .007266.|..4B..|..3B
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    .00726B.|..53..|..42
    .00726C.|..53..|..42
    .00726D.|..53..|..42
    .007280.|..2A..|..24
    .007281.|..2C..|..24
    .007282.|..38..|..30
    .007283.|..3E..|..33
    .007284.|..3F..|..34
    .007285.|..42..|..36
    .007286.|..49..|..3A
    .007287.|..4A..|..3A
    .007288.|..4B..|..3B
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    .00728B.|..52..|..41
    .00728C.|..53..|..42
    .00728D.|..53..|..42
    .00728E.|..53..|..42
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    .0072A2.|..2A..|..24
    .0072A3.|..2C..|..24
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    .0072A6.|..3F..|..34
    .0072A7.|..42..|..36
    .0072A8.|..49..|..3A
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    .0072AA.|..4B..|..3B
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    .0072AC.|..53..|..42
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    .0072B1.|..53..|..42
    .00731E.|..26..|..25
    .00731F.|..29..|..28
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    .007322.|..33..|..31
    .007323.|..39..|..36
    .007324.|..3F..|..3D
    .007325.|..42..|..3F
    .007326.|..45..|..42
    .007327.|..44..|..42
    .007328.|..43..|..42
    .007329.|..42..|..41
    .00732A.|..40..|..3F
    .00732B.|..44..|..43
    .007340.|..26..|..25
    .007341.|..29..|..28
    .007342.|..2C..|..2A
    .007343.|..2F..|..2D
    .007344.|..33..|..31
    .007345.|..39..|..36
    .007346.|..3F..|..3D
    .007347.|..42..|..3F
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    .007349.|..44..|..42
    .00734A.|..43..|..42
    .00734B.|..42..|..41
    .00734C.|..40..|..3F
    .00734D.|..44..|..43
    .007362.|..26..|..25
    .007363.|..29..|..28
    .007364.|..2C..|..2A
    .007365.|..2F..|..2D
    .007366.|..33..|..31
    .007367.|..39..|..36
    .007368.|..3F..|..3D
    .007369.|..42..|..3F
    .00736A.|..45..|..42
    .00736B.|..44..|..42
    .00736C.|..43..|..42
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    .00736F.|..44..|..43
    .0074A6.|..33..|..31
    .0074A7.|..3A..|..39
    .0074A8.|..3B..|..39
    .0074A9.|..3F..|..3E
    .0074AA.|..40..|..3D
    .0074AB.|..3C..|..39
    .0074AC.|..3F..|..3D
    .0074AD.|..40..|..3D
    .0074AE.|..43..|..41
    .0074AF.|..44..|..41
    .0074B0.|..43..|..41
    .0074B1.|..42..|..41
    .0074B2.|..43..|..41
    .0074B3.|..46..|..44
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    .0074CA.|..3B..|..39
    .0074CB.|..3F..|..3E
    .0074CC.|..40..|..3D
    .0074CD.|..3C..|..39
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    .0074CF.|..40..|..3D
    .0074D0.|..43..|..41
    .0074D1.|..44..|..41
    .0074D2.|..43..|..41
    .0074D3.|..42..|..41
    .0074D4.|..43..|..41
    .0074D5.|..46..|..44
    .0074EA.|..33..|..31
    .0074EB.|..3A..|..39
    .0074EC.|..3B..|..39
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    .0074F1.|..40..|..3D
    .0074F2.|..43..|..41
    .0074F3.|..44..|..41
    .0074F4.|..43..|..41
    .0074F5.|..42..|..41
    .0074F6.|..43..|..41
    .0074F7.|..46..|..44
    .007564.|..26..|..25
    .007565.|..2A..|..28
    .007566.|..2D..|..2A
    .007567.|..31..|..2D
    .007568.|..36..|..31
    .007569.|..3C..|..36
    .00756A.|..42..|..3C
    .00756B.|..43..|..42
    .00756C.|..44..|..43
    .00756D.|..43..|..42
    .00756E.|..43..|..42
    .00756F.|..43..|..42
    .007570.|..42..|..41
    .007571.|..43..|..42
    .007586.|..26..|..25
    .007587.|..2A..|..28
    .007588.|..2D..|..2A
    .007589.|..31..|..2D
    .00758A.|..36..|..31
    .00758B.|..3C..|..36
    .00758C.|..42..|..3C
    .00758D.|..43..|..42
    .00758E.|..44..|..43
    .00758F.|..43..|..42
    .007590.|..43..|..42
    .007591.|..43..|..42
    .007592.|..42..|..41
    .007593.|..43..|..42
    .0075A8.|..26..|..25
    .0075A9.|..2A..|..28
    .0075AA.|..2D..|..2A
    .0075AB.|..31..|..2D
    .0075AC.|..36..|..31
    .0075AD.|..3C..|..36
    .0075AE.|..42..|..3C
    .0075AF.|..43..|..42
    .0075B0.|..44..|..43
    .0075B1.|..43..|..42
    .0075B2.|..43..|..42
    .0075B3.|..43..|..42
    .0075B4.|..42..|..41
    .0075B5.|..43..|..42
    .0076BC.|..8D..|..8C
    .0076BD.|..8F..|..8D
    .0076BE.|..94..|..92
    .0076BF.|..8E..|..8C
    .0076CE.|..81..|..7F
    .0076CF.|..82..|..80
    .0076D0.|..86..|..84
    .0076D1.|..88..|..86
    .0076D2.|..8C..|..89
    .0076D3.|..8E..|..8D
    .0076D4.|..8F..|..8E
    .0076D5.|..8E..|..8D
    .0076D6.|..96..|..94
    .0076D7.|..97..|..95
    .0076EB.|..25..|..24
    .0076EC.|..32..|..30
    .0076ED.|..35..|..33
    .0076EE.|..36..|..34
    .0076EF.|..38..|..36
    .0076F0.|..3C..|..3A
    .0076F1.|..3D..|..3A
    .0076F2.|..3E..|..3B
    .0076F3.|..3F..|..3B
    .0076F4.|..44..|..42
    .0076F5.|..43..|..41
    .0076F6.|..44..|..42
    .0076F7.|..44..|..42
    .0076F8.|..43..|..42
    .0076F9.|..43..|..42
    .00770D.|..25..|..24
    .00770E.|..32..|..30
    .00770F.|..35..|..33
    .007710.|..36..|..34
    .007711.|..38..|..36
    .007712.|..3C..|..3A
    .007713.|..3D..|..3A
    .007714.|..3E..|..3B
    .007715.|..3F..|..3B
    .007716.|..44..|..42
    .007717.|..43..|..41
    .007718.|..44..|..42
    .007719.|..44..|..42
    .00771A.|..43..|..42
    .00771B.|..43..|..42
    .00772F.|..25..|..24
    .007730.|..32..|..30
    .007731.|..35..|..33
    .007732.|..36..|..34
    .007733.|..38..|..36
    .007734.|..3C..|..3A
    .007735.|..3D..|..3A
    .007736.|..3E..|..3B
    .007737.|..3F..|..3B
    .007738.|..44..|..42
    .007739.|..43..|..41
    .00773A.|..44..|..42
    .00773B.|..44..|..42
    .00773C.|..43..|..42
    .00773D.|..43..|..42
     
  18. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,213
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Ok you stooges (this means you Shemp), I get a feeling that making me take apart my Motronic boxes a few times was some hazing ritual now that you tell me all I had to do was install a remote socket instead. Cheesh. You can bet I'll have one of these on order ASAP. ND, I will return the stock chips for your inspection.

    Yep, dyno day was interesting. Bottom line is we are getting more power with everything we do. The bad news is that we are virtually crawling to the finish line (wherever that turns out to be). I am a patient man, but, geez, getting more power out of a lowly 3.0 liter BMW M3 engine was much easier. True, we know BMW left alot of power on the table with the US version since the Euro version was getting 280 Hp vrs. 240 HP US. I was only able to recapture about 60% on that with my mods. We don't have this data for the 348, so we are left on our own.

    We were toying with the idea of swapping a Challenge exhaust from Plugzit's race car to test how much the stock exhaust is limiting our gains, however, I am opting for replacement cats and exhaust since I believe that the stock cats are part of the problem. True, I could just replacement them with test pipes, but really that defeats the primary objective of our quest - get the most out of the engine in the stock configuration and make it CA smog legal.

    Comments on the dyno - (1) ND, I notice that the A/F mixture at peak is leaner, rather than richer as in earlier runs. (2) The remainder of the rmp range, it appears that things are in balance, which is good.

    Important Note: According to Mark, the owner of the dyno, the A/F mixture is reading slightly lean, so actual is richer. Unfortunately, we don't know by how much until we throw an EGS on the exhaust pipes.

    On the drive down to the dyno, I did not push the engine, but once I saw the A/F mixture, I did on the way home - no detonation issues at all. ND, I thnk we have more room in the chip config, but I agree to wait until we have an exhaust. It doesn't make sense to keep swapping out chips for interum steps since our goal is to have new cats and exhaust. For now, I'll keep your chips in the car. As for testing multiple chips in the car, remember that everytime we do this, we have to disconnect the battery, swap chips then run the car for 10 minutes to reset the computer. We could do a couple of sets, but I don't want to impose on the dyno guy since he has been more than accommodating to us. I am giving him some real estate advice in return, but I don't know how far we go with tying up one of his service bays.

    Still, onward and upward!
     
  19. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    67,323
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways


    I'm actually adding more fuel at the upper rpm band, but I wonder if advancing the spark demands even more than I'm adding over stock? Maybe one of the hot-rodders like Plugzit or Group77 or FBB or someone could chime in: does advancing the spark demand extra fuel?


    Also, none of us has tried the chip extender yet. It's untested on Ferraris.

    As for making only small increases...just tell me how much you want me to bump up your chips. The numbers above might be greek to you, but they should show you that the pink chips only added small increases to fuel and spark timing above the OEM chip set...there's room for *lots* more ignition spark advance and fuel delivery.

    Although we won't be going that high (in part because the Motronic boxes look for out of range data and guard against it), you could put in up to 255 (FF) where we have numbers as small as 21 (hex).

    I was bumping numbers up by 1 or 2 or 4 or 7...sometimes 16. Pretty conservative overall. We can bump up those numbers much more.
     
  20. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,213
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    ND, is there anyway to quantify this as a percentage change, maybe by rpm range? I don't read geek. :)
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    67,323
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    The far right column numbers are the OEM values. The middle column are the pink chip values.

    The pink chip values are from 1 to 16 larger than the OEM values. Net result: +3.5hp.

    Now, we can bump up those pink chip set values a lot more. How much is up to you. We don't want detonation, after all (but we don't want power gains to take years to make chips, either!).

    OK, here's the first spark timing OEM map:
    Starting at hex address 6BBE is a function of Engine RPM for spark advance timing curve
    (the TPS aftermarket chip bumps up each value in this table +6 starting at 6BBE)

    RPM:800...920..1280..1520..1720..1840..2000..2520..3520..4000..4520..5000..5520..6000..6520..7240

    Value:21....22.....25.....28.....2A.....2D......31.....36.....3D.....3F.....42.....42......42.....41.....3F.....43
    NOTE: the oem chip values above start at a value of "21" for 800 RPMs and go to "43" for 7240 RPMs and above...those values above correspond to the values in the far right column below:

    Hex.Adr |.Pink.|.OEM.
    --------+-----+------
    .006BBE.|..24..|..21
    .006BBF.|..26..|..22
    .006BC0.|..29..|..25
    .006BC1.|..2D..|..28
    .006BC2.|..2F..|..2A
    .006BC3.|..32..|..2D
    .006BC4.|..37..|..31
    .006BC5.|..3C..|..36
    .006BC6.|..45..|..3D
    .006BC7.|..46..|..3F
    .006BC8.|..49..|..42
    .006BC9.|..49..|..42
    .006BCA.|..49..|..42
    .006BCB.|..48..|..41
    .006BCC.|..47..|..3F
    .006BCD.|..50..|..43

    So, let's look at the first part of the values that I posted above: 21 in the far right column versus 24 for the pink chip column in the middle...so we bumped up that value by 3 (shown as +3).

    If we bump up that value by 4 (+4), then we would have a "25" in the middle column instead of a "24".

    The more that we bump up those values in the pink chip set, the higher the spark advance and the more fuel that we deliver in the fuel tables (not shown in this post).
     
  22. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,213
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    In general, how do these vary from the red chips u r running in your car - those that you think require 93 octane fuel? I'm thinking that my delimiter is not going to be octane, but rather the smog values I need to meet at the test rpm range. We can mitigate this with more modern efficient cats. This is why I think I need the test exhaust installed before we do another set of chips.
     
  23. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    86,831
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap

    Please dont post all of that again!!! :p:p


    My brain nearly exploded reading through all of that!! :D:D
     
  24. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    Thanks for the offer FBB..:eek:............. if we have time..... it may be interesting to see how a 'challenge exhaust' compares to the 'custom x-pipe muffler' on the dyno.... :).

    +1 :)
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    67,323
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    The pink chip set is conservative; the red chip set is...mmm...not.

    As for meeting smog values: install the chip extenders on both ECUs. Then you can swap out chips from street to strip and back again as easily as you change a CD in your stereo.


    Oh, and I'm running the pink chip set right now. I ran it for some considerable amount of time before I ever considered sending it to you (didn't want to be responsible for anything bad happening to you!).

    When I decide to change chip sets next time, I'll take my own advice and try out the chip extenders (just got them in the mail this week!).

    Besides, the red chip set is *not* for the street.
     
  26. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    67,323
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Sorry, Pap!


    But we could use some basic information.

    For instance, what is the OEM Ferrari 348 spark advance at idle and Wide Open Throttle?

    As a betting man, I'd guess 12 degrees for idle spark advance that gradually increases to 24 degrees spark timing advance by the time that we hit WOT...but we need more than guesses to get a really good chip set for the Brotherhood.


    Also, it appears as though some of the Ferrari OEM 348 fuel maps hit peak fuel around the point of peak torque, and then lean off a bit by the time we get to max HP. I need to double check that data, though.
     
  27. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,213
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    That is really devious. ;)
     
  28. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,063
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    This sure is coming along nicely boys.

    Ain't it great to be a Stooge?
     

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