scratch built Mazzer roadster | Page 6 | FerrariChat

scratch built Mazzer roadster

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wildegroot, Jan 13, 2009.

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  1. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    #126 wildegroot, Mar 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The new rear shocks and springs are on the car now. It wasn't a quick
    1, 2, 3 operation (when is anything ever simple?). The shocks came with
    5/8" I.D. bushings so I had to make sleeves to fit the 1/2" upper shock
    bolts. The old Konis had sleeves in them too but they didn't fit the
    GAZ shocks. The shaft that mounts the lower shock eyes has a 16mm O.D.
    so the lower 5/8" I.D. bushings had to be reamed a few thousands to
    fit. The adjustable threaded spring perches were left low on the shocks
    for now while the car is light with no engine, trans, much of the body,
    etc. I also had to make spacer rings for the outer radius arm rod-end
    bearings so they would fit snugly in the clevises attached to the rear
    up-rights. I couldn't finalize the installation of the radius arms
    until the new shocks were installed due to mechanical interference.

    After the rear suspension work was done I installed the rear sub-frame
    so I could tighten the upper shock bolts and the inner fulcrum shafts
    for the lower control arms, which the rear sub-frame attaches to.
    Attaching the front and rear sub-frames with the already existing front
    and rear suspension hardware seemed like an elegant solution when I came
    up with the idea but it does complicate assembly of the car with so many
    fasteners doing double or triple duty.

    As I said before, the rear sub-frame is red because I originally planned
    to paint the whole chassis red. When I'm finished fitting the tail
    section (rear body-work) I'll remove, sand and paint the rear sub-frame
    black (urethane enamel) along with the roll-bar braces.

    Since a slight adjustment had to be made to the rear sub-frame I wanted
    to make sure the fuel tank still fit on it's mounts and it does. I
    bought this tank from Summit or Jegs a while ago and modified it to
    fit. I may have mentioned it before but the aluminum cylinder at the
    right lower front of the fuel tank is the fuel surge tank. As long as
    there is enough fuel left to keep the cylinder full (about a gallon),
    the fuel pick-up will never suck air like it would in the bigger tank.

    I also made and installed a bracket to hold the brake-line T-fitting to
    the rear suspension cage. I used a piece of 304 stainless sheet so I
    wouldn't have to paint it.

    The motor mounts received a bunch more "lightening" holes and trimming
    today. Tomorrow I'll try to finish them up with some more sawing and
    grinding.
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  2. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Thanks for saying that. I'm glad some people are interested.
     
  3. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    I love Maranellos by the way. They're my favorite purely street Ferraris. Great cars!
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Unless you've done this type of work it's difficult to appreciate how much time is consumed on the "details".

    A truly wonderful project. :)
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Wil- My talent was for blowing up things, not building them, so I really appreciate people with imagination and talent that build beautiful, mobile objects.

    Thanks, I was lucky and got a really good 575M. They are pretty.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  6. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Thank you.

    I've been doing restoration work and performance up-grades for a long time and figured that since I had made, repaired, revised, etc, basically every part on a car, that building most of an entirely new car was quite doable. I had no idea. When you make a new fender or a new suspension part for an existing car you usually have points A, B, C, etc, on the car, to go by. When you're working from scratch (almost) it becomes very difficult at times because you, the builder, have now established points A, B and C and they are not necessarily in the right place.

    Like a lot of gear heads, I've been doodling cars to build since junior high school. When I finally made the crazy decision to do it, I purposely kept the design simple (no roof, no wind-up windows, no AC, no... you get the picture). I used as many parts from the donor car as I could, laid all the parts dimensions out on paper and basically connected the dots to come up with a chassis and body design. You have no idea how many problems-to-solve there were along the way. Well maybe you do but I hadn't figured on it that's for sure.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining - just admitting that I was oblivious to how big a chunk I was bitting off. I just have a lot more chewing to do than I anticipated.
     
  7. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Thank you.

    Maranellos are not just pretty. They're great cars to own and drive.

    So, what were you blowing up? I saw a reference to the F111. I assume that's the swing wing fighter/bomber famous for crashing early on.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Wil- The F-111 was politically sent into combat in VietNam with inexperienced crews way before it was ready and we lost three of six of the origianal Harvest Reaper aircraft. Luckily we got one crew back of the three lost aircraft and found the problem in those early birds. The later models were the most capable long-range interdiction aircraft in the world from the late 70s through the mid 90s, when we retired them. The F-111F with its precision guided weapons capability was the most capable of the F-111s and had an outstanding record in Desert Storm, in which I flew. We blew up just about everything, runways, bridges, hardened aircraft shelters with aircraft inside, the oil pump manifolds with which Saddam was dumping oil into the Gulf, armor etc.

    I love my 575M, just like I loved the F-111.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  9. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Taz, Interesting. An old friend of mine flew to England to help "bore sight" the F111s used to bomb some tents in Lybia a number of years ago. He must not have done his job right because they missed Colonel Kadafy (spelling?), the intended target. I remember seeing lots of F4s in Vietnam but I've only seen the F111 in photos. I should have become a jet jockey but I figured that out too late.
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Wil- The boresight procedure lined up the laser and infra-red sensor in the F-111F Pave Tack pod. This pod was used to track targets and project a laser beam to the target so the laser guided bomb could guide on the laser spot. Qaddafi (spelled many ways) was actually sleeping in a tent visible in one piece of Pave tack film during the attack, but the tent was not the target (no tents were targeted). The palace was and it was heavily damaged. Nobody's intelligence is perfect.

    If you can imagine sleeping in a tent when several 2000 lb GBU-10s exploded, you can understand why he lost interest in funding terrorist activities after the attack.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  11. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2008
    1,657
    Engine Bay, Georgia
    Full Name:
    George C.
    I think this is such a rare and wonderful thread. How many people get to see a car being created in front of their very eyes as you are doing, Wil? Keep up the great work.

    Ciao,
    George
     
  12. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
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    Wil de Groot
    I wasn't accusing you guys of anything. I have great respect for what you fellows do/did. That's just how the story was skewed or just how my feeble brain remembered it. I understood from my friend that they weren't actually peering at a target through a gun barrel when "bore sighting". He pretty much explained it the way you did but also explained that peering through a cannon barrel before firing, and then checking the results, is how the procedure got it's name in the old days. His job was engineering all kinds of stuff having to do with laser, IF, night vision, etc. (He was also a great race car driver [see I'm keeping this automotive]). Yeah, having a couple of 2,000 bombs go off nearby would get one's attention if one wasn't killed by it but then again, I know from experience that no matter the method, someone trying to kill you and only barely failing gets your attention for sure.

    Wil
     
  13. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
    3,616
    Perth
    Full Name:
    Steve
    F111s are still operational in the Australian airforce :) (to keep in line with the current theme ;))

    Back on topic though - I am in awe at your staggering vision and execution! Thank you so much for sharing :)
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    #139 PSk, Mar 24, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2009
    What impresses me the most is the alloy body work ... I've tried to weld Aluminium before and found it challenging. I did managed to (gas) weld up a thermostat housing but thin sheet metal leaves me wondering if black magic is required. On top of that we have the panel beating of the sheets also ...

    One day I'm just going to have to give it a go ... me thinks.
    Pete
     
  15. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Thank you for your interest!

    I'll be watching the GP this weekend. If you're in the stands, wave at the cameras. ;-)
     
  16. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    There's no black magic involved. There are procedures that must be learned and strictly adhered to and you need some special equipment. The rest is just practice. An example: For years I could never cut a glass pane without making a mess. A guy showed me a few simple things to pay attention to and suddenly I could cut a 3/8" (10mm) wide wiggling snake out of a large sheet of window glass with no trouble at all. I just needed to know a few trade secrets and stick to them religiously. The rest was cake. Welding aluminum sheet is more difficult than cutting glass but it's not impossible. I suggest you read some books on the subject and/or take a course at a local technical school. Using the TIG method is easier and cleaner than the less costly oxy/acetylene method but both systems will give you satisfactory results with practice. Panel forming can be learned too. There are at least a half dozen guys in the US who give lessons. There must be some people like that down under. If not, check out Kent White's Tin Man website. Kent is based in California but likes to travel to give lessons. Maybe you can get a group of guys together to form a class and convince Kent to fly down. You can learn a lot in 3 or 4 days of an intensive, hands-on work shop and then practice, practice. His videos are very informative also.
     
  17. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
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    Wil de Groot
    #142 wildegroot, Mar 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The rear body work was re-fitted to the car early this evening but I'm not happy with they way it aligns with the rear sub-frame (red). I'll have to make some more alterations to the way the rear sub-fame attaches to the rear suspension cage. It's the old "two steps forward, one step backwards" routine but we'll get this problem resolved. As soon as I'm happy with the way the tail fits, I'll install the doors to get the cowl, doors, rocker panels (outer sills) and tail all lined up and work the remaining high and low spots out of the aluminum skin. The nose will have to be refitted also. After that we can start getting the body ready for paint, which should be exiting.

    I also finished carving up the motor mount brackets. The first photo of these, which I posted about a week ago, showed them already considerably pared down from original. They should weigh less than half of what they weighed originally. The left mount held several accessories, such as the AC compressor, on the Quattroporte donor car. I still need it to help anchor one device so I couldn't chop it up as much as I would have liked but it's way smaller and lighter now.
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  18. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2007
    509
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Full Name:
    Jon Hansen
    As my 17 year old son says. "lookin FLY" Will.

    What the story with the blue Lambo in the shop?
     
  19. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    I'll take that as a compliment!

    The blue Diablo is a customer car - not mine. If you study all the photos, here and there you'll see little bits and pieces of other cars in the back-ground.
     
  20. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    #145 wildegroot, Apr 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Where the steering shaft passes through the front bulkhead is just where it happens to have a universal joint in it which complicated sealing the shaft opening to keep hot engine compartment air from coming in. I wanted to use the steering components from the donor car with as few changes as possible and the bulkhead doubles as a stiffener for the engine mounting structure so where the U-joint wound up was a little problem that needed a solution . I made and showed photos of the aluminum bellows mounting pieces earlier. Here they are, mounted ahead of the driver's foot-well bulkhead before sliding the hose up. I originally planned to make the bellows out of insulation cloth but then remembered that I had some high temp flexible brake duct which should work well as a bellows.

    The rear sub-frame was removed and modified and the rear body-work fits much better now. Once again, now that everything fits, I'm planning to sand and repaint the red rear sub-frame black before riveting the rear bodywork back on. I didn't bother with pictures since it's just more of the same thing. I'm looking forward to moving onto the next stage.
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  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Wil- I am looking forward to the next stage, too.

    Not to worry about the F-111s and Tripoli. Most people just heard or read the uninformed articles like the one in Playboy. Most details were classified for several years. Turned out to be a very successful raid, but two of my friends were killed in the attack, so not completely successful. In Desert Storm, we (my unit, the 48 TFW) did not lose an airplane.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  22. wachuko

    wachuko Rookie

    Dec 24, 2003
    42
    Orlando, FL
    Full Name:
    Jaime O. Diaz
    The work, the passion behind it.... wow!! Oustanding! Not enough words to describe it. And on top of all that, you are taking the time to document the build and share it with this forum. I am left without words! Thank you for sharing this with us.
     
  23. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Soon!
     
  24. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Thank you for your enthusiasm!
     
  25. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,513
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Busy right now tediously sanding the red rear sub-frame in preparation for spraying it black to match the rest of the chassis. I have to feather edge sand wherever the red paint was broken and the remainder has to be scuff sanded. Any shiny paint left will not allow the new paint to adhere properly. The rear sub-frame won't fit in the glass bead cabinet so I cleaned the scale off of the newly welded sections with a wire wheel and sand paper as best as I could. The modified roll-bar braces /will/ fit in the glass bead cabinet so that'll go easier and better. It's a shame I had to modify them too because the paint had flowed out so beautifully. There's a good chance the new paint won't lay down quite as nicely.

    I removed the rear shock from the car again and removed the springs. I had figured that with the linkage ratio on the rear lower control arms a 200 pound spring rate was about what I needed. You never really know 'till you try it but 200 pounds for each rear wheel is what I figured I needed to start with. This rear suspension uses 4 shocks and springs so that meant each spring should have a 100 pound rate. The GAZ adjustable shocks I bought are meant for an E-Type Jaguar and they came with springs. An E-Type weighs about 2600 pounds, maybe 400 pounds more than this car. I figured the ride might be a little stiff but let's see what happens. The springs that came with the shocks looked kind of heavy to me but I installed them anyway. Once the car was on the ground again it was immediately obvious the springs were /way/ too stiff. Yesterday, I removed the springs and actually tested one, like I should have done in the first place, and the rate was 230lbs at one inch compression. That's a 430 pound spring rate at each rear wheel! No wonder those springs looked too heavy! Unfortunately I can't find any rate marking on these springs but I think they sold me the wrong ones! Tomorrow, I'll start hunting for new rear springs.
     

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