...........................................................................................my wife is laughing right now, thinks you are a hen.
A bit more amusing than average, but enough with the quips. Having "subscribed" after the username doesn't make posts any more or less credible. What's important is the quality of the info and the experience/backup provided for the opinions expressed. Let's stick to that, thanks.
I realize my eyesight is starting to suck...but, isn't that the carbon rear section on that car? sheesh, I hope so or I need better contacts! If I'm wrong, how can you tell its the carbon or not just looking at it?
CF interior engine comparment panels were standard, like the CS. I was mixed about the US Carbon Package myself (without actually calling the dealer and asking). The rear diffusor and front splitter did not have the CF crosshatching in most pics. However, one of the pics of the rear diffusor upper edge and some of the pics of the headlight surround seemed to have cross-hatching. I think it was an artifact of down-res'ing on the pics. But another factor to consider is that early 2008's had various CF components individually optioned, so it's always possible that someone picked a subset of the full CEXU in a 2008 build. To be accurate, double-check with the dealer.
If I'm wrong about the carbon exterior package, my apologies. (And, I need someone to help me understand what the difference is because I am confused then...) What about your comment re the 15k service and clutch?
I explained my comment, a prospective buyer would be getting a good deal as long as the clutch doesn't need to be replaced, has good tires, and doesn't have to turn around and do a 15 k service. Sometimes cheaper priced cars are cheap because the next buyer will have to do a bunch of work on it after purchase. I too was confused about the US Carbon package, I have learned to look closely at the front diffuser, if it is a silver like color, the car doesn't have the package. IMO, a higher mile used car with current service and new clutch, tires, brakes would give the prospective buyer a theoretically good deal because they would not have to endure any big maintenance expenses for a while, other than fluid changes. All I am trying to do with this thread, even though I didn't start it, is keep prospective buyers informed on pre-owned Scuderia retail pricing, especially those under 180k.
Before you get too revisionist, let's go back to the original post: Questionable at best. IMO, leather interiors on CS and Scuds have lesser appeal. Leather is contrary to the character of the car, which is more tech and performance oriented, than luxury oriented. The lower priced cars I've seen have had leather. There's a strong argument that it's a deduct, not an add. $20K is a high deduct for missing the carbon package. The various exterior CF option were only a little more than $20K when individually offered, and a little less than $20K when pushed into the base configuration in 2009. Ferrari options rarely hold anything like full value, so $10-12K is more likely at the current level of the market. Also consider that CF options carry a much higher replacement/repair cost, which becomes a serious factor when values decline and CF ages/yellows/cloud/etc and becomes less attractive. 15K mile service costs on 430s are about another $1K over annual service; a minor factor. You're thinking of the higher cost of a 360 major service, which includes a belt change not needed on 430s Clutch deductions should not be tied to mileage but usage/wear. I've seen readouts for 10K mile F1 clutches that had 70-75% left. The correct recommendation is to ask for a readout, not scare buyers by suggesting a new clutch is needed at 15K miles. Your precision is unprecedented. I've never seen anyone define value adjustments on Ferraris down to $250 increments. You can run through a set of tires in a track weekend, it's part of the cost of owning the car. Might as well pro-rate months since the last annual service. If you think that's worth worrying about, I'd suggest looking at a different car. You're focused on tires, rock chips and bras, but you've ignored a number of other factors. One of the biggest is CCB disk and pad wear. I know of an 8k mile Scud circulating in the market that needed new CCB disks (due to heavy track use) - replacement cost of $25-32K. Don't you think that's a factor worth recommending a buyer check into, before worrying about rock chips?
I got a bunch off my last 3 purchases because the cars were missing a few things, or needed a few service issues taken care of. CCB brake wear is an issue I overlooked. Leather was an extra cost, and to me would be a plus because it would be more durable than fabric in the long run. I already addressed the value of a carbon package in another post. I have had to respray two cars with a bunch of rock chips due to no clear bra, important for me, maybe not to others. 2k for tires may not be a big deal to you, but to others it might be. I also addressed the clutch, by saying if it needed one. You don't list the total cost for a 15k service, $1000 more than an annual is how much total? For example I was looking at a 996 GT2 for 70k asking. Got a PPI done on it, brakes, engine were fine, but would need the following fixed to be worth 70k: Steering wheel needed to be replaced due to cracked carbon - $1500 Front spoiler scuffed badly - $250 Interior carbon loose, glue loosening up - $1000 Gt2 rear emblem broken - $250 Needed new tires - $1800 Only 1 key - $500 No books - $500 So if I bought the car as is for 70k, I would have really got it for $75,800. Passed on the car, and bought one with less miles, and in better condition, with new tires, and US spec for a little more, but won't have to spend my time fixing stuff. Seller offered $1500 off, but that would only fix the steering wheel. Car is still for sale, wonder why?
Here in EU there have been a lot of "cheaper priced" Scud's come to the market. Looking like prices are Collapsing. This last week I had off and spent the whole time driving across Germany to select a Scud to buy, as they are cheaper in Germany then here in Czech Republic. At the end of my trip, the best deal I found was the one here in Czech Republic, priced a good 15,000euro more then the ones I looked at, better service history, no repainted panels, lower Km's, full crash free - I was actually surprised how many had been in some kind of crash(even the so called parking hit, as most would have explained). So the point of the post, the new cheaper ones that come to the market that I looked at are priced for the condition that I saw them. Comes down to you get what you pay for.
Thanks for the additional comments. Does anyone know what the "2008 Scud CF exterior package" included? i thought it was: - front splitter - Rear "challenge grill" area (I don't know what else to call it) - Rer Diffuser top strip (again, hard to describe this piece). So I've always thought the "challenge grill" piece is the biggest of the three and that car looks like it has it? Or was that piece on all Scuds standard even in 2008? Help!
Rear challenge grill in CF was standard on all Scuds. The biggest piece of the CF pkg was not just the 'top strip' of rear diffuser but the ENTIRE rear diffuser including the vanes were CF.
Just joined, great forum, wanted to ask a question related to the Scuderia. Sometime next year I will be looking to offload the Porsche I have now as well as a couple other toys, and upgrade to a 430 (probably Scuderia 16M) as a long term toy. I know how to care for leather and keep it looking new for a long long time, but I am concerned with all of the Alcantara fabric in the Scuderia and how well it will age. The car will be stored in a climate controlled garage and only driven maybe 2000 miles a year. I know it's difficult to tell how well it will age, especially since it seems this fabric is fairly modern, I just don't want to have to replace the entire interior 25 years down the road. Anyone have any advice on this matter? As much as I like the interior and exterior look of the Scuderia, I will own this car for a very long time and I don't want the interior to end up turning purple as I have seen with some of the custom upholstered Alcantara jobs when exposed to the sun. Also, if the car wasn't going to be tracked except maybe once a year just for fun, how long could I expect the CCB's to last? I've heard they can last the life of the car, is that true? Thanks for any advice!
I would change any interior before 25 years. 25 years? The other questions have been asked many times. Try search.
Yeah, I figured that would be the response for the other questions, I should have searched, just figured I would throw it in with the main question. My father's 21 year old 348 still looks almost like new except for the side bolsters on the driver's seat which does show a decent amount of wear, but no rips or tears. He has cared for it meticulously though, just like I will care for my 430. I know it's doable with leather interior, but I am concerned about how well the Alcantara will age, especially on the dash and in other areas that are exposed to the sun regularly.
Carbon Package: - Rear diffuser with 6 deeper vanes rather than 4 like the F430 - Front Spoiler - headlight housings Weight saving: 30 lbs. Market price difference around $10k. Price to duplicate from parts bin, excessive.
Good questions. I too have wondered about the Alcantara interior. Regarding the CCB's, the earlier brakes did not hold up well at all on the track, but the newer ones are much more durable. I bet someone on here will elaborate and give some great answers without having to search. But searching is not bad either.
The value to using search is that you'll get a more complete answer; that being said, search here is dumb and you have to spend some time trying different terms. But I think it's worthwhile because you'll learn much more about some potentially expensive issues. Use 'alcantara cleaning' and 'alcantara fading' as search terms and you'll probably find over a dozen threads. As far as the "purple" look, if that's based on online photos, that's probably not fading at all. Alcantara looks purple in a lot of digital camera photos because the sensor is detecting infrared components reflected off the material. This is a common effect with synthetic black fabrics. Using 'CCB life' in search gets lots and lots of hits. I've been told that with normal road use, CCB disks should last almost the life of the car. I don't think anyone can attest to that at this point. With track use, it's entirely dependent on the use, with very heavy use possibly using up the disks in short order. F430GT had one of the more informed summaries: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139343385&postcount=24
Thanks! That helps, I (for some reason) thought the challenge grill was the key piece in that package. I have to say, I can live without (for a street car and not caring about the 30lbs) the package. Now I know. Appreciate it.
Here's a CS with alcantara dashboard fade. Fading doesn't appear to be super common, but I have seen this on a few cars. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Interesting, that doesn't look that terrible, but I can only imagine that it will become even more faded and eventually end up a light grayish color after 25+ years. As much as I like the Scuderia, I might go with a regular F430 just for this reason. Thank you for all the information everyone.
No offense, but how can you plan to own a car for 25 years? No one can even guarantee that they will let alone, be alive in 25 years?
I would have thought that dropping a few grand on having it reupholstered after 10 let alone 25 years should not be that much of an issue .... Other parts will probably be slightly (make that significantly) more expensive to replace over that time horizon.