Shift Linkage? Revisited

I get a real deja vu feeling reading your lines above. When I got my Mondial I started to have shift problems in the first and rear gear and still could shift in any other gear. After the next 300 miles I could not shift at all anymore when the transmission was getting warm and from there it only got worse not being able to shift when cold.

You can find my story with a good ending here. There are only a handfull of people who have experienced these problems.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/280494-mondial-not-letting-me-into-gear-during-long-drives.html

You are saying that it only has problems in Reverse and first. If 2nd and third gear are not affected then it cannot be your synchro ring else 2nd and 3rd would be an issue as well. Knowing this there could be little wrong with the transmission itself.

Some checkpoints:
- Is the clutch control lever going all the way down? You can test this with a glue tang to pull it down on the end of the lever where the rod of the slave cylinder is attached using the engine frame as down force. If it goes down it means the clutch isn't releasing fully. (Don't do this with a running engine as it might come off due to fibrations)
- If the above is the case, check if you have a replacement slave cylinder. Often they leak and get replaced by a Fiat or Alfa cylinder where the piston diameter is twice as big. Originally the diameter is 26mm I believe (workshop manual will tell). Anything bigger or smaller might get you in trouble depending on how much the clutch plate has worn out or not.
- Make sure your slave cylinder rod has not been cut.
- another option to do first is to fix a possible linkage issue. When fixed then and if the transmission looks ok when open, then I really suspect an incorrect slave cylinder diameter.

I had a Fiat cylinder and got rid of it buying a cylinder from SuperFormance which comes closest to the original. It was not my main issue, but as my main issue was fixed I got the oppesite problem... it did not engage anymore. On top of this my slave cylinder rod was also cut as well making it too short. I have now an adjustable rod as it is unknown how long the original rod actually is.

There is tons of info of shift problems, however I think you need to make sure you need to exclude certain things. Troubleshooting is like filtering. Not having the correct Slave Cylinder has affect if it can release fully or not.

When you are at a specialist let them check what I mentioned and they should be able to tell if you have the original stuff on it.

HTH
Tijn

 

Yes.

Here is another idea which would indirectly affect your shifting action: If you engine mounts are worn causing the engine to sit at a funny attitude, the shift shaft might have a problem running thought the sump properly and prevent you from selecting properly. Check the engine mounts and make sure all sits level.

Also, there are two bushings in the linkage, one at the gear shift and the other one between the chassis exit and the sump entry. Play/wear in them wouldn't help.

 

Good luck!

 

Mondial 1985, any news on the problem yet?

Some owners say the problem only happens once he car has been driven for a long time as in MVTs case.

Is yours the same or does it happen when cold and improve if you drive a long time? Has the clutch pedal become very soft when you press down? More than normal?

 

Hi Mark, any news on your shifting problem?

Am I right in saying that there are bushes that wear out at the shift stick?

 

Yes, 2.

 

Would that make it difficult to shift regardless of whether the car has been driven to warm up or not?

 

I don't think so. One bush is at the exit of the shift stick, the other one at the entry of the linkage into the sump.

 

Well.. The bushes itself not, but if the linkage has been once adjusted with the "old" bushes in and you put in new ones. I would expect that you feel that it is not comfortable anymore also when cold and I can immagine that it gets worse when getting warm.

I notice that I have a different position of the shift stick when the transmission is warm then when it is cold. This is after I put in new bushings. Mine needs re-adjustment for sure. However it remains a mistery to me that when things heat up that I have a different position of ths shift stick.

 

Is the knob further back when warm?

 

What I have discovered in the past week is that from cold I can't get into first, second or even third. It's so tough and I struggle and then I eventually get it into first. When I shift to 2nd it literally pops out of gear as I shift and sometimes from 2nd to 3rd it also pops out as I go to shift. After a very very long drive it all seems ok. The warner it gets the better it is but it was not like this before.
Would it be the a bushes or something else?

 

No relationship with the bushings, I think.

 

Yup! I have a feeling you know what it is My intention is to adjust it with the cuppling between the tanks

 

Hahahaha - when the linkage warms up, it expands in length and pushes the bottom connection below the stick's rotation point forward, which, reversed by the rotation point, and amplified by the length of the shift lever, pushes the knob back.

 

I would say.. adjust your linkage first.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/282800-robzworkz-2-shifter-shift-shaft-improvement-2.html

hehe! I guess in the back of my mind I knew, but I was hoping on something else. Thx for confirming it.

 

This will be my first winter with my Mondial and I can say I have the same for 2nd and 3rd.
What if it will be -20 degrees

Explanation:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/272638-drilling-tranny-casing-eliminate-cold-2nd-gear-problems.html
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Interesting to read but I dont understand what I'm looking at in the drawing and don't want to go drilling holes.
Why and what would cause this to happen suddenly after a long time of trouble free shifting? Would replacing the 2 silent block bushes fix the issues? Has anyone replaced these?

Thanks.

 

Took me some time to figure it out too when I first read it but this is the place for the 2nd gear they talk about. When you have mineral oil in your transmission and that is what dealers put in and also most specialist unless you ask differently, the oil gets more thick when cold and has difficulty escaping from the hole when the pin goes in. The pin goes into this hole when you put it in 2nd gear. Having synthetic oil in it like "Red Line", which is less thick then mineral oil the problem often goes away. Replacing the silent block bushes will not cure it.
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Thanks MVT,

But my problem is not with 2nd gear, its with EVERY gear. I have to put considerable force to get it in first. Too much force actually! In fact i cant get it in any gear except for 4 and 5 but still not so easy. Reverse always crunches.

Before this problem started everything was fine. I never even had the 2nd gear issue everyone always talks about. Something is definitely wrong and its not the oil. I just had it replaced when i had the shift shaft seals changed a few months ago.

I just checked the gear stick lever position with engine off. When in neutral i pushed it to the left and right and let go of it go and it rests in the middle, horizontally and between gears 2 and 3.

When i moved the gear stick lever forward to 2nd gear it moves about 8mm before there is resistance to change gear and when i let it go it just stays there, it wont spring back. When i push it back to 3rd gear, again there is no resistance for about 8mm and when i let it go it stays there.

Therefore when i move the gear stick forward or back there is at least 8mm of travel before resistance is felt to change gear and does not spring to the middle, it stays between the slots. The gear stick will stay anywhere in that 8mm travel when i let go of it. Does this sound normal? I don't know if it was always like this or not.

Thanks.