Silicone hoses for cooling system?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Birdman, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Hey Gang,
    As you ALL must be aware by now, MY WIFE'S ;) little blue Mondial needs some new hoses. I am going through the car and replacing every flexible hose in the cooling system. Philjay50 posed an interesting question in my GP thread about silicone hoses. Anyone have experience with them? In particular, the flexible quality of these hoses will make them easier to swap out in the V of the engine under the plenum. Furthermore, they should seal better against pitted aluminum water pump connections.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks!

    Birdman
     
  2. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    962
    Silicone hoses need special clamps. If you are going for durability and longevity...I replaced the cooling hoses in my truck with goodyear "blue" hoses..they are very durable ..handle a lot of preassure and last...they have a kevlar layer I think...they come in special kits for cars but I just matched them up with my hoses from a few kits as well as a roll of heater hose and it was way cheaper than silicone and was just what I was looking for....I was thinking of doing the same on the QV since it blows hoses due to trapped air but I am trying to get over my being a stickler for OEM ...( I know, I keep reading the Sheehan article...our 308's are worthless investments so just do whatever you want to them...and enjoy) but still....old habits die hard...although I think I would drive and enjoy the car so much more if it were reliable.
     
  3. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
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    Birdman,

    I've used both ordinary and silicone hoses on my aircraft engine (a Subaru 2.5 liter 4 cylinder one). Quite frankly, I cannot tell the difference between the two. They are about equally stiff (so forget about these being easier to work with), and seem to last equally well. I ended up using both mixed, depending on the size and shape I needed at each location.

    FWIW

    Hans

    P.S. Consider using Oetiker clamps (www.oetiker.com/pdf/clamps_e.pdf)

    I've used series 167 throughout, after I had one regular worm clamp leaking, costing me 2 of my 3 gallons of coolant, landing in a big cloud of steam with warped cylinder heads. I'd rather avoid a repeat performance on that one...
     
  4. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
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    I used Gates Green Stripe hose for my car - its very stiff-walled hose, and requires some serious clamping force to get it to 'seal' around the slightly smaller-diameter aluminum tube in the engine compartment. I used Silca (sp?) Constant-torque hose clamps for my hose sections vs. the run-of-the-mill worm-drive hose clamps. They worked great - but after the job was done, my mechanic had to replace one section and recommended Silicone hose - John Tirrell recommended them. He said the hose would out-last the engine. Personally, I would recommend silicone, simply because its shiny, easy to keep clean, come in highly-visible colors, and are easy to inspect for failures/leaks.
     
  5. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    I'm in the process of changing all my Mondial hoses for sillicone. the main Ferrari water hose is 40mm which I will replace with Samco's 38mm.
     
  6. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff Formula 3
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    Good day Birdman,

    I, too, have used the Goodyear "Blue hi-miler" silicone based hose with great results. However, I must agree with using special/different clamps. I did not know to do this, and I replaced my clamps with SS ABA worm-gear style. Although the ABA clamps work well, they become loose over time... say 4-6 weeks or so.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  8. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2006
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    I've recently replaced all my 18 years old hoses with Samco 38mm. It's a 328 and I can say that the silicone hoses are in fact easier to fit under the plenum.
    They should last longer, too. And I've used all stainless Wurth clamps (including the screw)
    1,500 Km later, all is well ....
     
  9. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    Did you have any issues with under the plenum and did you have to remove anything?. I will be using Mikalor clamps, I have always found them the best

    http://www.powerengineering.co.uk/mikalor/
     
  10. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    #9 RGigante, Jun 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've used the Wurth clamps because they were the only all stainless I could find, meaning that even the bolt and thread are stainless. That was after I had some trouble removing some of the clamps that had zinc'ed bolts ....

    Here's a picture of the work. I took advantage of the fact that I needed to remove the plenum, to clean everything and also replace the thermo switch ... so I had no big issues. If you decide to remove the plenum, be very carefull with the metal spacers that are between the plenum and intake manifold ! Search the archives for "removing the plenum": I've posted a few pictures and the removal process.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie
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    Can you get the hoses in red too?
     
  12. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    Yes, But blue is their standard colour and all others are about a 3 week order
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    This is a minor cross pst, but...

    While not original, would it be possible or advisable to replace the long coolant hoses with a stainless steel or similar metal piece?

    It seems a quality muffler shop could bend a piece of s/s pipe to fit. Rubber mounting hangars could be used as well.
     
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  15. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    You could buy a long length of ali tubing to save on weight and fit a silicone coupling, alternatively most silicone hose manufacturers could supply any long length required at way below Ferrari prices
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Russ, I don't know about the 3.2, but on the QV the long coolant hoses go through little channels in the car, and you would not be able to get a long, rigid pipe in there. The hose needs to be flexible to install it because it has to be bent around the undercarriage to install/remove. Netx time you are under the car, you will see what I mean.

    Birdman
     
  17. 89vr

    89vr Rookie

    Apr 30, 2007
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    Just an FYI, I have an excellent relationship w/ silflex which is the parent company of samco and others. I can get you guys anything you want pretty much at cost. Most of the silicon is 4 and even 5 ply. Samco supplies Ferrari with hose but without the samco stamp on it, they want everyone to think they make it themselves. so don't tell anyone :)

    Even if you need a custom piece, it can be produced, sand molded and wrapped. Any color you want, price is excellent. I won't mark it up for fchatters, just need to cover shipping costs.

    -Chris
     
  18. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Chris,
    What you have there is an outstanding opportunity to produce complete ready-to-go kits for various Ferraris! Maybe we should start with a 308 kit (red of course!) with all the hose bits to replace all the pieces in a 308? :D

    Birdman
     
  19. 89vr

    89vr Rookie

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    I can do it if someone could send me all the pieces for a complete kit. I'm sure they are some differences between the cooling systems for carb'd 2V's, 4V's and fuel injected 2V's/4v's. Any differences between mondi's and 308's need to be noted as well if any. I can also get any length tube's w/ premolded bends in them, so the long pieces from front to rear could possibly be 5ply if someone wanted them. If price is a problem, there are several silicon mfg's from siliflex to samco, to some china mfgs, the quality is all the same, but pricing is cheaper in china. I use the china mfg's for certain rfp's/rfb's which I need to win.

    If someone can get me a complete oem kit and there is enough interest, this can really happen. There's a lot more 308 owners out there than mondy guys.

    -Chris
     
  20. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    I couldn't agree more:D:D. And your wife would be happy;)
     
  21. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    I was thinking of replacing the long hose you are referring to. But the previous owner Waxoyled everything, and to be honest once I pulled a red hose through it would be black by the time it came through the other side.
     
  22. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    Hmm
    The Mondial is currently engine out on jacks - perhaps now is the time.

    Birdman - wouldn't you already have the specs on a set of Mondial hoses and clamps for a kit having just done yours? How difficult was the installation?

    I am also getting one of those inexpensive geared high torque starters as a reliability upgrade (and also since going to higher compression). This might be another really nice preventive and reliability upgrade.

    Will try to get under the car this week and have a look.
     
  23. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    WHo cares what color the outside is! When I post the picture of what the inside of mine looked like, you are going to want to replace yours!
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Russ, there are two long hoses. On my car, they were 60" and 61" long respectively. They were a little tight to yank out because of age, and swelling. They are 40 mm ID rubber hose. I'm replacing them with 1-1/2" hose (silicone) that I ordered from McMaster-Carr (only place I could find it that long....automotive sources only have it up to 3 feet). The benefit of the 1-1/2" hose is that it is a tad smaller on the outside and will slide back in easier...I hope. This is not a difficult job on a lift. Not sure about on the ground. A little messy....coolant drips out when you undo the connections, even after you have drained the car. The hardest part are the two pieces under the plenum. I'm going to pull the waterpump to do mine, and that is the part that a lot of people will not want to do because it's a pain.

    As for the specs on the complete kit....yes, I will have all the old pieces once I have all the pieces out, except I chucked a couple of them up in Montreal, but they were just short connector pieces, so you don't need the originals. Every piece in the kit is a straight piece except the one at the top of the radiator which is a 90 degree bend. It's a pretty easy kit.

    I was just thinking that in terms of developing a marketable kit, there are a lot more 308s out there than Mondials! But if Chris doesn't mind doing the legwork, we can do this too.

    Birdman
     
  25. 89vr

    89vr Rookie

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    If the kit is mostly straight pieces it's going to be cake, there is also a large selection of 90's all ready available from samco. just send me out the pieces and the specs on the ones you junked. sad thing is, you guys probably drive right by my house when you came back from the gp. I can order 5 or 6' lengths and custom cut them inhouse to save on cost again.

    -chris
     
  26. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

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    I was just going to order red with all the other hoses I replaced
     
  27. Birdman

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    #25 Birdman, Jun 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So this is what the inside of BOTH long hoses from the front to the rear of the car look like. That is a total of 10 feet of hose. Not only is the inside providing a lot of resistance to flow, those little pieces of rubber are breaking off, floating downstream and clogging the radiator.

    REPLACE YOUR HOSES!

    Birdman
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