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So much for being on "the list"

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by fasthound, Jul 29, 2009.

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  1. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2003
    311
    #1 fasthound, Jul 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
    In April 2008, less than a month after purchasing a used F430 from FoW, I went in and gave them a US$10,000 deposit for whatever would eventually replace the F430 model. I have a copy of the "Order" written on the dealership order form.

    I was also asked (a couple of months later) to sign a release for Ferrari (not the dealership...FERRARI, as in Ferrari SPA) to be able to use my personal information. In that document it stated that if I didn't allow them to use my data they might not be able to process my order, etc. Fairly standard stuff. Signed, sealed, delivered.

    So, I was a bit surprised when the General Manager at FoW today informed me that all the deposits (the money) were in fact safe and accounted for (I actually knew that from asking about it several months ago) but that they were not going to honor any of the deposits that the previous owners of FoW (the dealership changed hands about 4 months ago) had taken.

    WHAT? Yep. Those deposits are useless in terms of securing the ability to order a car from FoW. They, the new owners, do not accept deposits for upcoming cars. They only accept deposits when they can actually place the order. Further, they will deal with people who have established a relationship with THEM (meaning the new owners). I stated that I had purchased two Ferrari's from FoW, so I have a relationship, and he said, NO...you don't have a relationship with US...the new owners. SAY WHAT? It was a relatively unpleasant and stupid conversation from that point on. He went on to explain that they have found that this is the best way to ensure that the cars get into the hands of people who will drive them and enjoy them and not into the hands of speculators. Hey, they are welcome to establish their own policies...that's their choice. But to simply not honor any prior commitments by FoW? And to knowingly hold my deposit even thought they had no intention of honoring the "order"?

    Strikes me as total fraud (holding my deposit money and not communicating that they were not going to honor the deposit for the purpose for which it was intended), but that's up to the lawyers to decide {I mean the lawyers on this forum...I have no interest in pursuing any legal matters with this dealer}. But gee, they are happy to send me my deposit back now that I've asked for it. Wonder if they'll be giving me any interest on that money?

    So, I now find that I must, in effect, buy services or products (I guess?) from the new owners of FoW to expect to be among the chosen few to be contacted up front about ordering a new car? He said that they would first contact people with whom they have established a relationship and after that would contact others who might be interested....and I might be able to get a car sooner than I think. Well, yeah, assuming no one with whom they have an established relationship wants one....let's face it, it isn't like Ferrari allocated hundreds of these things to each dealer each year. So for all I know, it could be three years before I am told I can come in and place an order. Who knows? Might be days, might be years, might be the car that replaces the 458...who knows? How many people have an established relationship with them? Who knows?

    Holy crap...are you kidding me?

    I am not looking for preferential treatment....I'm looking for a commitment made by a dealership francised via Ferrari North America, and therefore Ferrari SPA, to be honored. Is that unreasonable?

    So am I to understand that every time a dealership changes hands I have to re-establish a relationship with Ferrari? Just so that I can be among the chosen few who are considered acceptable to be allowed to purchase a new car? REALLY?

    Ferrari North America will be getting a call from me in the morning, but I am not expecting much satisfaction from that.

    You just have to love car dealers, eh?

    Ah well, yet another of life's little lessons, eh?

    Swell.

    So all my enthusiasm over the prospects of owning a 458 have been temporarily overcome by the bad taste in my mouth from my discussion with FoW.

    Was I an ass on the phone once it became clear what was happening...yeah, probably. Was that justified...no never. Do I regret it...I always regret when I'm rude. Will I lose any sleep over it....yeah, I don't think so.

    I will be removing the FoW license plate surround from my F430 rear plate in the morning. It won't mean a damn thing to them, but it make me feel a whole lot better.

    So, here's the silver lining in all of this.....the $10,000 was in the bank (yeah, their bank, but...) which means it wasn't in the stock market which means it didn't lose 30-40% of it's value. Cool, huh?

    Kevin
     
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  3. CyclingPeaks

    CyclingPeaks Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    361
    Big Island, Virginia
    Full Name:
    Hunter Allen
    Make sure you post this on the VA. MD forum as well. Other locals need to know.

    I would suggest calling up Hank Carpenter from Foreign cars Italia. He's on this forum and an excellent guy.
    Hunter



     
  4. Bluehinder

    Bluehinder Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2005
    861
    Colorado
    Very sad. Hang in there.
     
  5. joao

    joao Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    130
    Things don't change, just the name of the owners, got burned the same way by FOW with a deposit in a 430, it's all about politics and not about the cars...got so pi..ed off at the Ferrari thing and bullsh.t that I just sold my last 2 Ferraris this Year...Buying a new Ferrari these days is almost stupid, they don't hold their values like they use to, almost like the real estate and the stock market, too many people getting into the Ferrari ownership for the wrong reason and then...values go down. FOW was flipping cars to wholesalers for a profit so they could pay their bills, I'm sure the new owners will do the same thing and that is why you are not getting your new car, they have better plans for it. Note, I only bought 5 Fcars from them before they did me wrong on the 430 deposit. The list...what list...none of them provide you any real info, they keep in the dark...use your money and then good luck...sorry mate but it is what it is.
     
  6. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 3, 2006
    10,086
    DC Metro
    Full Name:
    L.C.
    #5 355dreamer, Jul 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Kevin,
    Sorry to hear about this. You MUST post this in the MAR section. This is no way for the new owners of FOW to regain the trust and loyalty that has been lost over the last several years.

    I understand your fusteration, the 458 is the only modern ferrari, aside from the CS that I covet.

    In the mean time, I suggest you get one of these license plate frames...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  8. msgm1

    msgm1 Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    435
    NYC
    What a crock of s...
    You are better off having nothing to do with them, take your business elsewhere.
     
  9. Casino Square

    Casino Square Formula 3

    Apr 21, 2004
    1,694
    Hong Kong / USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    ...well, I won't bother to rehash my numerous 'effing and blinding' posts about unethical Ferrari dealerships (many will no doubt be muttering a sigh of relief!), but I cannot but add my comment that they never seem to learn. It is such a shame that a beautiful marque with such a wonderful history is represented by some of the most obnoxious low-lifes in the business. The best thing to do is exactly what you have done on this thread: ensure the cold light of publicity is shined on them and their contemptible lack of ethics. Hopefully the better dealers will benefit, and the scum like FoW will wither and die....
     
  10. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Spend an hour with your lawyer. A simple letter from him/her could encourage a discrete exception to their new business policy.
     
  11. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,864
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    A chat with Ferrari NA might work even better.

    Unfortunately, you're kind of stuck when it comes to dealers, Ferrari protections their regional sales efforts better than anyone, and it's unlikely, given the conceived popularity of this new model, that you'll be able to get an out of region dealer to sell you a new car.

    FoW no doubt knows this, will sell their cars to whomever they choose, and old customer base be damned. What a shame. Just appears to be a continuation of the recent policies there that have caused several members here to post in disgust. I do not have any first hand experience with them, but they sure seem to continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

    To what end could this policy possible lead? Do they think they'll build customer loyalty this way? Interesting approach, to say the least.

    I wonder if any of the EX-FOW employees could help you get a list together of people who made deposits and are getting similarly screwed. 20 voices are always louder than one.

    DM
     
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  13. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    Things have changed, is anyone sure there will be much of a wait-list-relationship-requirement anymore?
     
  14. Forexpreneur

    Forexpreneur Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    636
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Alexander Everhart
    Do it the right way and go uphill. Contact Ferrari of North America. Give your story and show proof and demand action. After 30 days if nothing happens then contact Ferrari SpA. You don't need legal action just a little bit of ankle biting. ;)
     
  15. Forexpreneur

    Forexpreneur Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    636
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Alexander Everhart
    Must say I love the maids dress on the "license plate frame" :)
     
  16. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2003
    311
    I decided not to even bother calling FNA. I know the response would not be satisfactory, and besides....what's my end goal here? At this point there is absolutely no way FoW will ever get my business again. Even if FNA put me at the top of the list at FoW, I wouldn't buy a car from them if they were the last dealership on earth. I have no need to ever set foot in that place again.

    So, I'm totally over it at this point. I've decided to move on and not let it bother me. I know I will be able to get a 458 at some point, so I'm not going to stress about it. FoW will never see another dime of my money, and they likely don't care, and that's fine with me.

    In the meantime, I'll just enjoy driving my F430...without the FoW license plate surround. :)
     
  17. raider1968

    raider1968 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 13, 2008
    4,966
    NC Mnts & Asheville
    Full Name:
    John E
    This is absolutely nothing new - dealers have been pulling this BS for years - I know of several friends who the same thing has happened to in the last few years. One of the posts had the right idea - get a lawyer to send a threat - in the past some have respondd to this - if you have the paper work. Play hard ball with the aholes. I, for one, am feed up with the Ferrari dealer BS over the past years-the supposed waiting list and BS - I spent over $850,000 at one dealer and still had to listen to their complete BS, half truths, maybes, and over priced service etc.

    Now, after saying that, I love my two Ferraris I have now, a 430 Spider F1 and a CS and will never sell them but I will also never put up with the dealer BS again - it does my heart good to get the phone calls and emails about the Scuds and 16Ms they can not sell - I am not puttinmg down the two cars, they are awsome but I have had enough with the Ferrari dealer experience

    John E

    PS
    This in no way directed at Foreign Cars Italia in Greensboro - they and Hank Carp are great
     
  18. raider1968

    raider1968 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 13, 2008
    4,966
    NC Mnts & Asheville
    Full Name:
    John E
    By the way, who is the dealer you are talking about
     
  19. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2003
    311
    There is an interesting postscript...the dealership called and needed me to send them a fax with my signature for their records indicating I had decided to ask for my deposit back. They wanted me to say that I was no longer interested in the car or had changed my mind. Talk about CYA!

    I sent the following:

    "This is to confirm that I wish Ferrari of Washington to fully refund my $10,000 deposit.

    I am requesting this refund not because I am no longer interested in the car (the 458 Italia), but because I have been told by the General Manager that FoW will not honor the intended purpose of the deposit and that they do not accept deposits for future model cars.

    And since this is the case, I will expect that Ferrari of Washington will refund the full amount along with interest for the four months that the new owners have been in control of FoW. Since the new owners of FoW knew they were not going to honor my deposit, and had no intention of doing so, for them to keep this money for four months and not communicate with me about it is at best a very questionable business practice. So I will expect interest payments for at least the four months during which time FoW held my money under false pretenses."

    And by the way, I DO have the paperwork....but I am not going to send any threatening letters, etc. There is no point. I don't want to do business with these guys. I will take my business elsewhere. Maybe I'll just go back to reliable German cars (Porsche 911's were a passion of mine on the street and track/racing for quite a few years). I traded in a 2007 997 GT3 for the F430. Maybe it's time to try the new GT3....faster than the 430 and I could probably get one without having to pay to be on a waiting list and without having to deal with the BS from Ferrari.
     
  20. raider1968

    raider1968 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 13, 2008
    4,966
    NC Mnts & Asheville
    Full Name:
    John E
    Sorry for your decision man, I understand your feelings but it would be nice to stick it to them and get that great car - you could deal with someone else after getting it
     
  21. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,864
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Probably grab one of those right now for under sticker, no wait. :D

    And that dealer would be thrilled to see you walk through the door.

    Only downside (and I'm a big Porsche guy, have owned several over the years) it's not a Ferrari. Yeah sure, you can talk about speed, handling etc, but it's not the pure "sexy beast" (thanks Austin Powers) that a Ferrari is. Sure the Porsche will start every time, it'll go fast, it'll stop fast, it'll corner great, but it won't be a Ferrari. Of course it's also not Ferrari money, so there is a plus there I guess.

    Too bad FoW doesn't get it, they probably never will. I'm going up today to talk to the folks at Algar about this very car. See what their deal is.

    DM
     
  22. atomicskiracer

    atomicskiracer Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,597
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    Aren't some of the FOW guys on the site?
     
  23. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,864
    Babcock Ranch, FL
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    Dave
    I'm sure there are. There's someone on here from all the dealerships, I would think, along with folks from FNA and Ferrari SpA. They'd be foolish not to follow at least some of the goings on here at the busiest, most popular, best written and most knowledgeable member attended Ferrari site on the planet!!! (Ok, yes, that was some shameless brown nosing, but it's still true.) :D

    DM
     
  24. fingolfin

    fingolfin Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2007
    1,248
    Sounds to me like they lucked out by screwing a pretty reasonable guy. I think some people would have gone completely into orbit over this. Me, for example...


    ... but way to be the bigger man. You'll get your 458 and they'll get what's coming, eventually.
     
  25. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,924
    Ponchatoula, LA
    But I thought he COULDN'T deal with any other F-dealer of a new car. Doesn't FNA restrict sales of new cars to only the dealer deemed in your area? Can having multiple addresses get around this?
     
  26. raider1968

    raider1968 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 13, 2008
    4,966
    NC Mnts & Asheville
    Full Name:
    John E
    Any dealer will do what is good for them at the time - period!!!
     
  27. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,924
    Ponchatoula, LA
    True, but aren't dealers bound by contract with FNA to only sell new cars in their territory? I thought that was something strictly enforced by FNA.
     
  28. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,864
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Which is why an out of his network dealer won't touch him on a new car. If they sell him a car, they lose two cars on allocation, and the network dealer they "stole" him from gets them.

    ****ty deal? you bet, but that's how Ferrari rolls on this stuff.

    DM
     

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