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Started Pilot Training!!

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by CRUSING, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. CRUSING

    CRUSING Karting

    Oct 31, 2002
    235
    Jupiter, FL
    I always wanted to be a pilot and I recently moved to Florida, so I decided take it up. Thinking of a career change so I am on the full track training in a Piper Warrior, I had a couple of hours in a 172. Any of you pilots have an opinion on which is a better trainer? Any war stories would be helpful. 3.4 hours and on my way to 500.
     
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  3. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
    3,504
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    Chris
    Congrats man.
     
  4. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    The low wing is a better trainer. Since most serious planes have low wings, its better to learn in one. You get a little more ground effect, but in the long run, its better to learn in a low wing. Plus, its probably 10 - 20 mph faster than the 172, if you've got the 160 - 180 hp version.

    Which school?

    Art
     
  5. Burnout

    Burnout Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    732
    Canada
    KEEP A GOOD LOOKOUT!

    I 've had too many close calls, and I havent been flying too long.
     
  6. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    Use flight following, and be very careful at uncontrolled airports.

    Art
     
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  8. thadbrown

    thadbrown Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    229
    cool i just started my private. where are you based out of? i am based of sanford, fl
    thad
     
  9. Dr C

    Dr C Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2002
    480
    Kansas City
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    Ed
    I got my private ticket about 15 months ago and have passed my written for IFR training and am doing my practical instruction now. I fly a Warrior with the RAM upgrade (160 hp). A point that I've heard discussed many times is that the Warrior is a really forgiving aircraft. Practicing stalls in it is unremarkable because it really doesn't stall. But, my early training was in a Cessna 150 and they really do stall -- it stops climbing and it really starts going down. My point - the Warrior will cover up some of your mistakes. The Cessna won't. So, not a bad idea to get some hours in a small trainer. Although I fly just the Warrior now (or my son's Archer), I switched between the Warrior and a 150 numerous times.

    Regarding instruction: there are lots of instructors who are just trying to get hours at someone else's expense. Look for an instructor who loves flying and who has trained a bunch of students. My two instructors (one is Leroy Cook, a veteran flight instructor who writes for several flight magazines and has published books on flying) virtually live to fly -- it's their life. I've learned so much from them that goes way beyond the FAA written and practical examinations.

    Also, I think that my IFR training has made me a much better pilot. And, as someone else has said already -- use flight following on every cross country flight. Learn basic navigation -- don't even bring a GPS into the cockpit until you know what you are doing with basic navigation.

    Enjoy the flight!
     
  10. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3


    Well, great!

    I am a CFI, so I know exactly what you are asking. I own both high and low wing and train in both. PM or email me with your questions and I'll be glad to help. :)
     
  11. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    16,017
    Savannah
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    I NEED A JOB
    i have an A&P , i look forward to moving up into lessons.i am working on FCC stuff as of now. Radar rating coming soon i hope. ( elements 1, 3 , 8, FCC) i love to fly!!!!
     
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  13. PeterS

    PeterS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 24, 2003
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    Crusing...Good luck in your flight training (Don't fall for your instructor asking you to go to the FBO office for a gallon of 'propwash' during pre-flight!). Art's opinion is a good one. You may mix your training in both the Piper and the Cessna 172. Learning to fly is fun. Make sure that the planes you are flying are fairly well maintained. I owned two Cessna's that I had on a lease-back to a flight school. The owners are pure profit centers for the FBO's, but the planes are maintained better than most. Don't ever be bashful to ask questions to your instructors. They rather answer a bunch of 'dumb' questions over and over than have an incident on their record from a solo student. If you can buy block time, do it. You will spend the money anyway. If you can swap time working at the FBO for flight credit, that's also a good idea.

    Have fun and learn safe!
     
  14. CRUSING

    CRUSING Karting

    Oct 31, 2002
    235
    Jupiter, FL
    Thanks for all of the encouragment. I am training at Professional Flight Training at Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport. It is expensive but it seemed about average for the flight schools here and a lot more professional in appearance.

    Some of you might find this story somewhat amusing. When I was about 12, I was working in the yard with my dad and I heard the sound of a testarossa coming down the road (of course I did not know what it was immediately). I went running up to the street and I was in awe. Right then and there I decided I was going to own a Ferrari. So this became my delema. I was dead set on becoming an airline pilot, but my dad who is a lawyer (who did very well) pushed me a little toward becoming a lawyer. I figured that I could own a Ferrari faster by becoming an attorney. I did not want to be in my 50s before I could afford one, so I opted for law school. Well now 3 1/2 years after law school I really don't like it even though I was indeed able to buy a 1985 308. I'm not interested in taking another bar (I'm licensed in WA and CO) exam, and now I so wish I had just done the pilot thing and by now I would be making decent money working half the hours and not have had near as much debt, and probably still have been able to buy the F-car.

    So now that's the reason I finally decided to go to flight school! And I will probably be in my 50's before I own another one but at least I will enjoy my job!
     
  15. TimN88

    TimN88 F1 Veteran

    Jun 12, 2001
    5,032
    Northeast
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    Tim
    Sounds great. I want to get a ppl this summer, if i have the time. I want to get some hours under my belt for when i apply to air national guard units in a year and a half. HAving lots of flight hours has a big effect on your PCSM (pilot candidate scoring method). One of my friends is currently training for his ppl. He is mostly deaf though, so he can not fly alone because someone needs to operate the radio for him.
     
  16. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
    19,539
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    Don
    Well, the grass is always greener...

    A few years ago, I flew a trip to Phoenix for a World Series game, and at the FBO I started chatting with a guy flying a King Air. Turned out that he had a dual career-- defense attorney and pilot. He said he went back and forth, worked for various airlines for years (most of which went broke) and worked as an attorney. He was mostly working as an attorney and flying the King Air for a charter company to keep his hand in when I met him.

    Actually, you are starting at a pretty good time. If you had started 5 years ago, you would have just had time to get on with an airline and be on furlough now. As it is, you will probably catch the next hiring boom at the beginning and have a nice career.


     
  17. RussianM3_dude

    RussianM3_dude F1 Rookie
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    Mar 15, 2004
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    Nikolai Petroff
    If anybody is looking for affordable pilot courses, check out Hemisph-Air in Dorval (YUL) Montreal. It should be around half the price for all courses. Maybe 3500 us or less for basic course. We had tons of Americans come do their courses there. Plus Dorval is a huge Intl. airport and you get to hang with all the big boys.
     
  18. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 9, 2002
    6,926
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    Jordan Witherspoon
    Congratulations! There is NOTHING like flying...That used to be what I wanted to do as a career. As far as which trainer is better? I dont htink you can really go wrong either way. The important thing is your instructor, not the plane you fly. Fly one light aircraft and you can almost pretty much fly them all :) With instructors though, make sure you find the right one!

    Post some flying pictures from your next flight!! I always love seeing those :)
     
  19. F360@20

    F360@20 Karting

    Nov 24, 2003
    244
    San Diego
    I could not see over the 172 dash!
     
  20. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

    Thats no cheaper than many schools right here. 70% of the worlds aviation is trained in Florida.

    >Dorval is a huge Intl. airport Guy, so is Ft. lauderdale!

    As for a career, you made the right choice. One of the biggest myths is that there are many professional pilot jobs out there just waiting for you to complete ATP. Actually, you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting an unemployed pilot. Absolutely, the 1st ones are given to ex military pilots, and the big pilot mills have so many recently graduated CFIs running around that it's a standing joke.
     
  21. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
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    Chuck Barton
    No doubt you picked a bad time to become an airline pilot but there is no greater feeling of freedom than flying! As many of the guys have said here already, the industry is in a serious down turn right now with not much good news on the horizon. The entire industry is changing as well. the days of the six figure airline capt may well be a thing of the past. You have to decide now why it is you want to do this as it is going to be a very difficult goal indeed. If you are in it for the glamour of being an airline capt, you would be better off doing something else. If on the other hand you are in it for the shear love of flying, then you will eventually get were you want to be. Keep in mind the pilot mills will make this all seem quite easy but let me tell you from first hand experience, it is not. One thing you might want to consider is corporate aviation instead of the airlines. A lot is going on in corporate right now that could soon make it available to almost any company that can afford first class on Delta. The bottom line is no matter what you decide to do in aviation, as long as you are passionate about it you are sure to succeed. One more thing, there is an old saying in aviation that most of these guys will tell you is quite true. It goes something like this. There are only two types of pilots, old ones, and bold ones, but there isn't any old bold ones! Good luck and welcome to the club.
     
  22. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

    >If you are in it for the glamour of being an airline capt, you would be better off doing something else. If on the other hand you are in it for the shear love of flying, then you will eventually get ...

    Very well said.

    >One thing you might want to consider is corporate aviation instead of the airlines. A lot is going on in corporate right now that could soon make it available to almost any company

    Okay, that is true, but better add a 4 year degree in aviation (see Embry Riddle) and get an A&P rating as well, not to mention a *lot* of turbine time.

    As one corporate pilot once said to me:
    " Guy, your wife's legs have more time in the air than you do!"

    I'm not trying to discourage you, but I really can't stand the common flight school manta of tons of easy to get, glamourous job postings.

    It's a lot of very expensive training, and a very competitive market, dominated by high time ex-military flyboys.

    Flying time doesn't count toward lifespan! :) Fly safe!
     
  23. Eric308gtsiqv

    Eric308gtsiqv Formula 3

    Nov 26, 2001
    1,952
    Orange Park, Florida
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    Eric Eiland
    Congrats to you CRUISING...best wishes to you and your flying career! I really envy all you private pilots out there. As a teenager, my dream was to fly...perhaps even a stab at military flight career, and eventually a try at spaceflight. Somewhere along the line, circumstances left me in the daily grind of my current career -- but I'm certainly not complaining :)

    Back to the flying dream: Right after H.S. graduation, decided to persue a private pilot's license and began ground school that summer at a local FBO airbase. Took the ground school written exam but didn't receive the results until after I was off to college. Unfortunately, I failed the exam by just a couple questions IIRC. Remembered getting all confused in the section of the exam that required you to calculate your payload, fuel load, etc. as part of the preflight. At any rate, I never went back to retake the exam -- which, in hindsight, was a big mistake...as I should have kept after it.

    Lately, like you and others, I've been thinking about finishing what was started years ago.

    Gabriel, you've really got the propellers turning again in my head. There's Craig Airfield nearby (as well as Herlong, where I took G.S.) -- and, from what I've been told, both have good training schools. Any advice from the seasoned pilots out there (private or commercial)?

    This would be strictly recreational, as I have no intentions of making a career out of it...
     
  24. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    CRUISIN:

    I'd take the bar in a state where you might end up living. There are an awful lot of pilots who have second careers. A law degree (with a license) backed up with experience in flying can and should be both interesting and profitable.
    Remember that if you do become a airline pilot, you work 80 hours per month. Every pilot that I've met has a second career, otherwise they get into the bottle, women, etc. because of too much time off.

    The IFR rating is the definition of your flying. It's the base license to learn to become a professional pilot. I'd get that immediately after your private. The commercial, CFI, ATP come after that basic license. The multi-engine rating is relatively simple, and can sometimes be done in a weekend.

    GIven the current economics, it isn't a good time to aspire to being an airline pilot, but my general of pilots is leaving, because of the 60 years old retirement age. Over the next 10 years, the US will lose about 30 - 40% of its professional pilots, so your timing may be right.

    Good luck.

    Art
     
  25. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
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    Chuck Barton
    Your right about the need for a degree but I don't think the lack of turbine time is necessarily going to stop you. I just happen to be a corporate pilot, and I can tell you that it is a who you know not what you know game and it isn't about your log book either. I am the chief pilot of a company called Alexander, Haas, Martin & Partners. I Started flying just a little over 6 years ago. My wife bought me a discovery flight at a local airport as a birthday present. At the time I was in my own bussiness and after I took the flight I got the bug. So, I handed over my bussiness to a good friend and enrolled in a professional Aeronautics program at ERAU. While attending classes at night I flew 6 hours a day 7 days a week until I got all my ratings. 6 months from the day I took my first flight I was a multi-engine insrtrument instructor working at a local FBO. I did that for about 2 years and at the same time I would use my off hours to network as much as possible. I probably shook more hands that year than I did during my entire life up to that point. Well one day while I was out networking I met the former chief pilot of AHM & P (Tim) while he was waiting for his passengers to return. We got to be friends and as a result he let me fly right seat with him. At the time I had no turbine experience and did not even have the proper endorsments to log the flights but I felt it was an opportunity to get to know everyone so I flew with him for free just for the experience. I did that for almost a year while at the same time working as an instructor and continuing to take classes at night. I had a little multi-time in light twins by then, around 200hrs or so, and about 800hrs total time. One day I got a call from Tim and he said he had been hired by Airtran to fly the 717. He also told me that the President of AHM & P was interviewing pilots to replace him. I seized the oportunity and called Doug, who is now my boss, and set up an interview. To make a long story short, we met at his office and because he already knew me well from all the flights I had done with Tim, he hired me. He even agreed to send me to school on the airplane and paid for it. Keep in mind I had 0 turbine time and only 800hrs total time when I was hired. I spent 1 week down in Oklahoma City at Flight Safety were I recieved simulator training and systems training and the rest is history. I have been with AHM & P since then and have loved every minute of it. I told you this story to hopefully make a point which is that corporate is a who you know game not a what you know game. Most corporate pilots I know got thier jobs in a similar fashion. Also don't let anyone fool you into believing that there is a pilot shortage out there as that could not be further from the truth. I once had a conversation with the chief pilot of Delta airlines while attending a seminar. I asked him about this so called pilot shortage and what he said supprised me. He said that he had resumes stacked up to the ceiling in his office. He also said that the problem was not a shortage of pilots, it was a shortage of qualified pilots.
     
  26. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
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    Chuck Barton
    Art, that is true the timing may be good but there is one other thing to consider. The entire industry is changing. For one it is become more lean. In otherwords the relative number of pilots the industry will need over the next 10 years is decreasing. Also changes have occured on the corporate side which will very soon make corporate aviation much more affordable for small companies. Now that is not to say your wrong. Let's face it, we really don't know what will happen 10 years from now! Good points though!
     
  27. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    I agree with both Charles and Art. On one hand, the job is changing, the day of the $250k airline captain with 20 days off per month is gone, just as the five day layovers of the Pan Am era are also gone.

    But, with the growth of discount airlines, regional jets, and ongoing retirements, it's hard to imagine the total number of airline pilots decreasing, even if the job is less attractive. And, it's still darn attractive-- there will still be plenty of $100k captain jobs (of course, $100k doesn't buy what it did 20 years ago). And, it may take you 15 years or more with a carrier to get to that point.

    Corporate flying is a nice alternative. I, too, am a corporate pilot, and have been in and out of corporate and charter flying for almost 18 years. Charles is exactly right that it's who you know in corporate flying, and you can get to know the right people if you work at it.

    I especially agree with the suggestion that flying is a good career only if you love it. I remember a few years ago reading about how in the late 60's some of the major airlines hired non-pilots, trained them and put them to work. Interestingly enough, very very few of them stayed on as pilots for more than a few years. Most of them just didn't love it enough to put up with the hardships associated with the job.
     
  28. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

     

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