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Stradale Problem

Discussion in '360/430' started by GWat, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. GWat

    GWat Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    251
    USA
    OK, I've never owned a $200k car before, but shouldn't it run on all 8 cylinders when started.

    This has happened to me 3 times so far. The first time at 120 miles on the clock. When cold, I turn the key and wait for all the check lights to go out and then hit the starter button. The car fires, but is only running on 4 or so cylinders. A quick look over my shoulder reveals that there is indeed 8 of them back there, so I turn the car off. I let everything reset and try it again. This time it fires right up and runs fine.

    Like I said it has happend 3 times and every time it is fine when I shut it down and resart it. I called the service manager at FoS and he explained that it is a common problem with 360's and unfortunately there is no know fix, but it doesn't hurt anything. He also said that a hard boot of the system could solve it.

    Hmmm...anyone else had this happen?
     
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  3. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    interesting. curious to hear more from other 360 owners.

    could someone explain what a "hard boot" is? i assume you yank the battery connections (or whatnot) so the ECUs have zero power and that "hard reboots" them?

    stupid question: how do you know it was running on four cylinders as opposed to, say, 8 badly?

    doody.
     
  4. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    This is the first I've heard of this......... Seems like he's blowing you off a bit.
     
  5. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,291
    Southern California
    Well I don't own a CS, just a lowly 360. I must have started it hundreds of times by now and have never experienced this problem. (It must be a jarring experience in a 200K car!)

    Maybe it's a CS-peculiar problem. I'm sure it uses different engine management software...
     
  6. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Why is it, that, so many ferrari technicians are so flippant?
     
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  8. Buttuz4eva

    Buttuz4eva F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Dec 14, 2003
    2,673
    LONG ISLAND N.Y.
    Full Name:
    Challenge Farrelle
    has never happened to my 360 demand them to check your car asap
     
  9. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
    1,811
    FL, OR
    It happened a few times on my 360 over 20000miles. It went away and I never thought it was big deal since it usally recoved within a second or so or certainly on the restart.
     
  10. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    4,869
    Full Name:
    ~Red~
    Having worked in a dealership for 3 + years, i have never seen or heard of this problem. Take it in. Don't accept that crap attitude from the Service manager.

    FWIW- there are 2 ECU's that run each bank independtly of each other, so one may not be going through its normal start up procedure. One sugestion would to turn the power off and leave it off for a few minutes to clear out the puter's.

    GL
     
  11. GWat

    GWat Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    251
    USA
    Yes, that is what I speak of

    I may be wrong on the four cylinder thing, it sounds like it is barely running and very out of time and no where near the smoothness you get out of a 8 cylinder engine at 800-1000rpm


    Thanks to the rest of you for your input. I should bring it in, but I hate taking my vehicles in at every sign of trouble. It's such a pain in the ***. I will often try things myself before bringing it in. I so many times have brought vehicles in for service only to find new things wrong when I get it back.

    This is the same thing the service manager told me. I will try it before escalating the concern to the owner of FoS.
     
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  13. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,469
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman
    I own a Stradale as well, production date is Feb 04.

    I also have a similar starting issue where 40% of the time when I start the car cold it sounds very rough for about 5 to 8 seconds, as if the engine is not running on all cylinders or there is not enough fuel. Then the engine seems to just bring up the rpm's up from 600 to 1100 and everything is fine. If I press the gas petal down to give the car more revs the engine will stall. Bye the way I used 94 octane, so it is not the gas.

    I also found an interesting quirk with the starter botton, where if I realise the starter button too soon in the starting cycle the engine still starts but will run very rough...enough so that the only way to fix the problem is to shut the engine down and restart it. As if the car is telling me that I did it all wrong :(

    Over the past week I have found that by holding the starter bottom down for an extra 2 seconds that the engine now seems to run properly from the get go. But, I will keep you imformed if this actually solves the problem.

    The thing I love about this Stradale is that the starter botton feels like it is directly connected to the starter motor. In my Mercedes, the starting of the engine is electrically controlled by the engine management system which then sends a signal to the starter motor. It does not matter if I half turn the key, the car always turns on. For me it is about the details and whether you like it or not, Ferrari's just feel alive in your hands and the starting of the car is where it all beings to come alive!! There are times when I start my car I recall part in the movie where Dr Frankenstein shouts, "it's alive it's alive", a beautilful thing ;)
     
  14. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    are you familiar with "skinner's pigeons"?
     
  15. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    Good one, the button actually sends a signal to a control unit (not the ECU) similar to Enzo. I have seen the car started with a laptop at FoSF.

    I have not had the problem with my 360M, it has about 17K and always starts and rund around 1200 or so rpm and comes down to about 1100 when it warms up. There could be so many things either on the sensor side or fuel and ignition side or even on the ECU side that could be wrong, one cannot start to look into this issue unless there are fault codes stored in the ECU.
     
  16. Derek at FoD

    Derek at FoD Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2004
    1,921
    Denver
    Full Name:
    Derek Fennig
    I've personally experienced the problem many times while re-arranging the showroom and it doesn't just effect the 360 CS, the 2002 Maseratis and some early '03s were having this problem too. I've also experienced it in a couple of 575s but oddly enough it has never happened before in a 550.
    It is very annoying but it doesn't seem to hurt anything.
     
  17. John B

    John B Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    1,549
    NJ
    My '99 360M sometimes runs a little rough for the first 4-5 seconds. Sounds like it's not running on all cylinders but then the others always catch after a few seconds. No harm but sometimes it's a little embarasing when it kind of coughs and stumbles to life. It sounds much better when it just barks on all eight right off the bat after keying it.
     
  18. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Something to try:
    Do you listen for the whine of the fuel pump priming before attempting to start the car? Do you let the pump prime ? You'll know it's done (the fuel pump), when the low hum/whine of the pump goes quiet.
     
  19. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Hmmmm... That's all i am going to say. Hmmmm...
     
  20. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    LOL - Good thing the engine has the glass cover. :)
     
  21. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    I've never noticed that in my car, when the "check o.k." comes on I start her up. My buddy's car with an F1 does make the pump sound but I thought that's for the F1 pump.
     
  22. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,070
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Hubert,
    I don't think this applies to a FI car...my understanding is that the fuel pump will not start until it senses the engine turning (from the cranks sensors). This is a safety feature in the event of a crash....unless the engine is running, the fuel pump will not continue to run.

    Maybe this varies by brand/model..but I have never heard the pump with the engine off in my 328GTS, BMW or Honda.
     
  23. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    I think this is the oil injector prior to start up i.e. when you open the driver's door or turn the key.
     
  24. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    I do hear the fuel pump coming on in my 996 as soon as the ognition turns on but not in the 360M.
     
  25. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765

    I have the same problem with my car when it is parked overnight; occurrence every time – it runs rough as is running on fewer cylinders – most of the time it finds its beat and goes into the warm-up idle; if it takes too long I switch it off and re-start after which it always runs fine

    I actually believe that this is not caused by misfiring cylinders but by the way the start-up phase works – between 30 and 640 RPM the injectors are not controlled by the timing sensor but are open simultaneously for a time controlled by the engine temperature – once the engine crosses 640 RPM the normal timing control takes over

    With my car it is obvious that the engine does not cross even 500RPM – it runs rough but not like cylinders are missing but more like rough as in RPM low – it obviously does not get enough momentum (fuel?) to cross the line into normal mode – once you re-start it makes the transition easily since enough fuel should be in the intake

    I have not found any link to temperature, revving the engine before shutdown, how hot/cold the engine is at shutdown (bubbles in fuel line), wait for Check OK, etc. – also the duration one presses the start button should not matter since the electronic determines the end point

    sensor and fuel parameters are stored in erasable memory in the ECUs all can be re-learned by re-setting the ECUs with the SD2 – that’s what I think the hard boot reefers to – however this means that all the fuel parameters have to be re-acquired, which takes some time/driving and you never know what happens

    so I decided since the problem only occurs if I start the car in my garage and never if the car is warm / has been driven / is started in public I will live with it - alternative is to have it in the shop and exchange sensors and mess with the ECUs one step at the time – I rather drive the car
     
  26. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    i'm not sure but i've been told that when you open the driver's door the F1 pump runs for a few seconds.
     
  27. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625
    Thomas, my car does the exact same thing, every time, only when parked overnight. I've never switched it off and tried again, after several seconds it always jumps to about 1100rpm. Like you, I've decided it's not a major problem and don't want to leave it at the dealer. If you do ever find out exactly what causes it I would appreciate a post or pm.

    Thanks, Paul

    Gordy, my car runs perfectly and strong otherwise, I'm sure it doesn't cause any harm.
     
  28. GWat

    GWat Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    251
    USA
    I am glad to see that I am not alone with this issue and that it apparently causes no harm. Thanks for the responses. :)
     

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