As Derek posted on page 1, we experianced this problem for the first time back in 99 with one of the first 360's we recieved. Happened on quite a number of them. Popping and snorting, and generally running like crap for the first 5-10 seconds. This is not a CS problem, but a 360 problem. As Brian stated, early on in the 360 line FNA had us removing all of the grounds and treating them, as well as the Motronic connectors in the engine bay. Some cars this helped, some it didnt. At one time there was even the theory that a powder residue in the vac. lines from the engine to the brake booster was causing a vac leak down situation. This proved to be a wild goose chase as after checking numerous cars in the dealership all were found to leak down over night, some with the problem, some without. Drove the sales guys (Derek) nuts, as we always had gauges and test equipment hanging from the sales cars, so we could compare reading from a car that started well, in back to back tests. One car that showed the problem at every start (Derek, remember Dr. "M", red / black 360?) was eventually fixed. Problem here is that FNA had me doing so many things at once, there is no way to tell what was the fix. FNA said that a tech should be able to remove, clean and treat all grounds in the car in under 4 hrs! Bull ****! I remember the class Brian spoke of, and this topic of a legitimate amount of time involved was "discussed". I did some tests on cars on my own time, and if I had to force a guess, I would say that the problem lies with either the ground in the LR behind the wheel, or one of the 3 in the rear of the tunnel. I suspect this to be the case because other cars were fixed afterwards by treating these 4 areas. This became my std. "first try" repair for those cars with the problem. Brian is spot on with his reply that this "is not normal" and should be addressed. Some sympathy for the techs is in order, as they are between the customer wanting something fixed and the service dept knowing that the claim has a very good chance of getting bounced. Been there after 3 days of a FNA rep saying "keep going and fix this car" only to have the claim bounced and accusations made (another FNA rep) after I left the dealer network. Differance this time is I have copies of the autho's and all of my notes regarding the repairs, as I saw this coming. When did trying to fix cars become a CYA situation? Dave
I tried your suggestion overnight and put it on charger - it did not change - still showed same behavior this morning
With stabilant, a product that is avail from VW among other places. It enhances elec conductivity. Also the grounds should be cleaned. The nutcerts that are installed in the chassis to connect the grounds are steel and steel to alum is not a friendly situation as far as electricity is concerned. To compound that the nutcerts are not always installed tight into the chassis, compounding the poor grounding.
http://www.stabilant.com/ Most VW dealers do not stock it, but will special order it for you. They have a decent price on it as well...about $55 for a little eye drop bottle.
04' CS. Had the problem once so far. Engine lite also came on. Turned engine off and restarted it again after about 30 seconds. Problem went away. Car is garaged in the arizona "dry" heat and plugged to a charge most of the time. Suspect that I didn't hold down the Start button long enough.
Ok, well I haven't read right through all posts, but it seems the older they get the more they do it...at least in my experience! They ALL do it at some time, and I've tracked it down to the following... Driver not waiting for check function to finish before using starter or... Fuel pump relay (one for each bank) delaying itself....they are a funny thing and I don't fully understand the workings of it...but they have a diode and other trickery inside and they often hang for a while......I've never needed to replace one though....some cars run on 4 for about 15-20 seconds before finally clearing onto all 8. If you have a concern..get both fuel pump relays replaced and see how you go..... Interesting point is that the N-GT cars never do it...yet they share the same engine ECU's but have only one fuel main pump...that's what helped me track it down.....
I have a great deal of experience in the Federal and California Lemon Law: I understand its a pain to bring in the car, BUT...you need to get a repair order written on your car immediately to ensure documentation that there is a problem on your car and they attempted to fix it. Next, if it happens again, your need to go down again. You will never be able to get a lawyer to take a case with out any repair orders and verification by the Dealership that their was actually a problem. The court or arbitration board will not recognize you or us as an authority on the vehicle. The Dealership will probably also not write up the car unless they can verify the concern.
I recently tried holding the starter button down for an extra second as suggested and it seems to have cured the problem - last four times in a row - and it had the problem 100% of the time when the car was parked overnight since I took delivery.
I haven't experienced this issue with my CS, but it has only been 3 weeks since I've owned it. So far, it has always fired up immediately, steady idle rpm. The start button has always been sharp to start up, w/o having to hold it...identical to my Honda S2000. One thing I was told when taking delivery of my friend's Enzo was...when the Enzo is on cold start, it will only run on 4 cylinders until the cats are up to temp, then the rest of the cylinders will fire accordingly, don't be alarmed. This was Ferrari's method to pass cold start emmision requirements. This is the case with the Enzo everytime I've driven it. I wonder if this could be something similar...but my CS does not do that.
I had a similar problem in my 03 360 with about 1000miles. A couple of times I forgot to wait for the check ok light and the engine seemed very rough and not all 8 cylinders firing. I turned it off and it restarted fine but the check engine light stayed on for about four or five short drives.
With my 99 360 if seen this "miss" fire happen a few times. Once I actually started to drive away and experienced next to no power from the engine, pulled over and cut the engine for a few seconds then started up and everything was fine. Other times it's happened with a cold engine in the garage, starts up frie but runs rough... just cut it off then back on and everything is fine. Sounds like fire order to me... nelson.
Interesting thread. I too have a similar problem with the CS. However, it happens only when I start it for the first time after parking it overnight. Could it be a "cold start" problem? It starts off at around 500 RPM and stays there for about 5-8 seconds before finally jumping to about 1100 RPM--the regular idling speed. Didn't someone (Bumboola?) suggest that the ECU's need to be reprogrammed by FNA? Anyway, is it harmful to the car even in the slightest way? I am keen on learning what the issue is. This happens essentially everytime I start it in the morning after leaving the car overnight. The majority of the service managers and wrenchmen at the dealerships seem to be dunces so they don't really know or even care for that matter. Any advice on this is appreciated.
i posted some info on this recently: btw, ferrari has solved the cold engine startup problem. i had this problem on both of my cars. talk to your dealer. they have to remove your ECUs and fed-ex them back to FNA. then FNA "reflashes" the ECUs and fed-exs them back to the dealer. the new software solves the cold start problem. i can't prove this, but i swear my car runs noticeably better. seriously. it is much more responsive and seems to have more torque in the mid-range. i actually called FNA and spoke to the guy responsible for reflashing the ECUs. i wanted to know what they did to make the car run better. he kind of laughed and told me it was my imagination because they did not change anything other than some of the startup software. before you conclude that it was my imagination let me tell you that one of my friends had the same issue with his stradale so he had his ECUs reflashed. he was almost giddy when he called me to tell me that he was thrilled at how m,uch better his stradale runs. not only did it solve the cold start problem but he swears he has a lot more performance. my friend also told me that he asked the service manager at FBH if they noticed any difference in performance. the service manager told him that they had already reflashed the ECUs in three other stradales and he too noticed a big difference in the way each of these cars drove. maybe we're all nuts.... regardless, reflashing the ECUs solves a known problem with the stradales so i'd highly recommend that you talk to your dealer about this upgrade. you know how ferrari is. they won't necessarily track you down and tell you about an upgrade. it seems that they wait for people to complain about something and then they tell you they will fix it
Baasha, I really don't think the cold start problem is harmful to the motor, but you should definitely get it fixed. As Rick said, the motor does run noticeably better, regardless of what Ferrari says. I don't know if they altered the air/fuel ratio or the timing but mid-range torque, the only sore spot in the motor's power curve IMO, is much better, no question. I think Ferrari simply came up with a better ecu program than the early cars such as mine had and took the opportunity to incorporate this into the fix.
Thanks for the reply. How do I exactly tell the service manager I want the ECU's reflashed? I mean, what if he says, "what the hell are you talking about?"... However, I will go and find out anyway. Is it something I have to pay for or is it a warranty issue? Thanks again 720 and Bumboola.
It is a warranty issue and should take three days, four days max. If the service manager says "what the hell are you talking about" then pistol whip his dumb ***. I should note that I was told Ferrari NA were updating the ECUs for a limited time period - CS only - so get right on it.
LOL...! So what happens if, after they "stop" reflashing ECUs and then someone finally starts having this problem...? Are the ECUs something that can be "flashed" by an aftermarket company...?
Ok. I went to the dealer and told the service manager about the problem and he stood there perturbed. He didn't know what I was talking about. He said he'll look in the computer to find if FNA had sent some "bulletin number" or something regarding this issue but it was to no avail. I need HELP! This guy seems to be a dunce par excellence. Anyway, bumboola, is there a way I can contact FNA directly about this or speak to someone knowledgeable? I want to get the ECU's "reflashed" or recalibrated as soon as possible and with this moron of a service manager, it seems to be quite tough. Please HELP!!
