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Stuck in 5th gear... 1 more example

Discussion in '360/430' started by Leko, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    Hello. I have seen several threads about F1's getting stuck in gear. Mine is now stuck in 5th gear, and I'll document the troubleshooting process to increase the sample size in hopes that someone else may benefit down the line.

    Was cruising on the highway and went to shift, but nothing happened. Red transmission warning light started flashing on the lower right side of the tachometer. Kept cruising in 5th to get to a better spot to pull off onto the shoulder. Had to let it almost stall out then shut it down. Obviously the rear wheels are locked up, so the flatbed driver used a floor jack to insert plastic skates under the back wheels. He then sprayed the flatbed metal surface with tire shine so the wheels would slide with no torque on them.

    First thing I checked was the F1 fluid level, looks good. I then ordered an F1 relay, since I read that they take a good beating electrically and tend to fail over time. That came in the mail today. When I replaced the one in the car, the existing one looks almost new... no scorched contacts or anything. That didn't work, still no action from the trans pump.

    While I had the fuse panel open (behind the right-side seat) I visually inspected the 50A F1 fuse. Looks fine, but I'm going to replace it anyway just in case it's got a break I can't see.

    If replacing the fuse doesn't work, I think that narrows the issue down to a bad sensor, the F1 pump itself, or the TCU governing the F1's electrical system. I don't know enough to figure out which sensor might be bad, and I don't have the skill set to pull the pump and power it on a test bench to see if it works.

    Pretty sure I saw a very high price tag on Ricambi for the F1 TCU (like $4k or something?) when I skimmed their parts list, but I could be mistaken.

    I will be having it towed to a Ferrari tech for the remainder of the diagnosis process, and will update this thread.

    Any input on other things I can try with the car immobile in my driveway would be appreciated, but I'm at the point where I'm resigned to let the techs do their thing.

    Cheers
     
  2. DanNE

    DanNE Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 7, 2013
    446
  3. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    Thank you for the suggestion. Cheers!
     
  4. billy.gif

    billy.gif Karting

    Mar 9, 2017
    244
    Finland
    Some say that "LÖWE automobil TPS Throttle Position Sensor for Peugeot Citroen repl 9642473280" is a "plug n play" type of cheaper solution and works fine but I personally haven't tried that.

    Someone may post their experiences?
     
  5. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    Yes, that's what I was looking at for a replacement part. But I just had a Ferrari tech say that a bad TPS wouldn't prevent power from getting to the pump motor. It's looking like the pump motor is dead. I think just swapping out the F1 pump motor and not the whole pump, I wouldn't depressurize so I wouldn't need to bleed the lines?
     
  6. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    its pretty weird it is stuck on 5th gear and when you came to a stop it stays on 5th. very very not probable. I've had various 360s stuck on various gears on dozens of occasions, all of them went to a "safety" Neutral when speed is low enough. If it is really true that it "stays" on 5th gear, it is not a hydraulic problem or electrical.
    I'd think it is really a problem inside of the gearbox, mechanical, that is( i doubt it). So make really sure it stays on 5th without you manual shutdown the engine before the speed is low enough.
     
  7. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    if it really is the pump problem, then you are in luck. its pretty simple and you don't have to bleed anytning.
    you must have done something before the car let it go to neutral to result in stuck in 5th gear.


     
  8. DanNE

    DanNE Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 7, 2013
    446
    Yes I have tried that you can get the Citroen part but you need to be able to have a shop (or yourself) take off the old part and remove+re-solder the sensor head to the cable harness -- and then seal everything air tight with some flexible epoxy so that water does not get in.

    You get to spend $20 for the part instead of $1500 or whatever Ferrari wants for the cable.

    Then you need a shop or friend with a SD2 to have the system re-learn the positions of the gearbox.
     
  9. sanfran

    sanfran Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2004
    521
    LA
    Full Name:
    Oliver
    Does the self learn procedure not work on a 360?

    You hold both shift pedals down for 20 seconds or until the car starts beeping and the display changes.
     
  10. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    If there was no pressure to the F1, it wouldn't be able to just "go in neutral" as a safety feature, correct?

    Bought a new motor for the F1 pump. Going to install that when it arrives in the mail and report back as to whether that solved the problem.
     
  11. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    Do you do that while the car is running? Or with the ignition switch on but car not running?
     
  12. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    incorrect.
    it will, if you don't turn off the engine. I wondered that before as well and couldn't figure out why. I even tested it by pulling out the f1 relay while driving (i know, i know, stupid)

    tested on euro version modena vin circa 132xxx


     
  13. Leko

    Leko Rookie

    May 19, 2018
    14
    Frederick, MD
    Full Name:
    Craig Bare
    Reporting back, issue solved. The motor to the F1 pump burned out. When it died, it blew the 30 amp fuse to the F1 system.

    The fuse to this system is located behind the DRIVER's seat, which is opposite from where the relay and ECU for that system are... those are behind the passenger seat. There is a 50amp fuse right under the F1 relay, but that is for the airbags I think.

    I had just the motor to the F1 pump replaced ($350 US for the part on ebay). That and changing the fuse solved the problem.

    Thank you for your help and suggestions!
     
  14. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    31,292
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    was on a spirited drive today with a bunch of people, on the way back on the highway, the transmission decided to no longer change from 5th gear - neither up or down.
    i called my local tech guru, and we debated on what might be the issue and solution, and in the end decided to limp to his garage - which was quite a feat frankly because i had to remain in 5th and drive in such a manner not to stop anywhere....which worked until 50 yards from his garage, and then we pushed it the rest of the way.

    once the car stopped, it reverted to neutral at least so we could push it. but then it would not start.
    tried turning the battery off and then on again, waited 15 minutes for the car to cool down, and still nothing.

    i am hoping it as easily resolved as Craig's issue - motor to the F1 pump.
     
  15. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2012
    604
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Do we need a separate "F1 Issues" forum? Seems to be endless F1 threads coming up right now.
     
    billy.gif, brookliner7 and one4torque like this.
  16. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
    1,748
    Houston
    Full Name:
    One4torque
    Recommend a data base for ease of troubleshooting.
     
    KC360 FL likes this.
  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    31,292
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    turns out it was the F1 sensor.
    so the transmission needs to be pulled to replace that and throw out bearing cleaned.
    will do standard service as well.
    still going to be 4K tho.....:(
     
  18. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,854
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Are we talking about part number 219340 ..I assume you have a 430

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  19. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    31,292
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    i dont know what the part number is but yes the car in question is a 430.
     
  20. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
    1,748
    Houston
    Full Name:
    One4torque
    Someone could create a simple excel table of f1 fails and associated rca and fix and $$.
     

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