Stuff you'd like to know..

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by alexm, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran
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    In the spirit of "there's no such thing as a dumb question" maybe this thread might have legs to pose unrelated questions generally or outside of a current thread..

    We have some incredibly knowledgeable people here and I'm sure the group here makes it a decent place to ask and who knows what interesting discussions might unfold..

    So...

    I'll go first..

    I was reading the specs of the F-35 and see it has listed top speed of Mach 1.6 ..where does such supersonic testing take place? I was of the understanding it wasn't presently allowed over continental US? so maybe in remote areas and for military testing it is?

    ..and on a related note.. with the various proposed revivals of supersonic transport where would THEY test if they got to that stage?
     
  2. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    There are military ranges where aircraft can fly supersonic.... In fact I have heard/felt sonic booms from the F-35 at Edwards AFB (Air Force Flight Test Center) a few years back.

    Probably at military ranges to start with. NASA has their Dryden flight test facility co-located at Edwards and has flown a variety of high speed aircraft there including SR-71 Blackbirds that they inherited from the USAF.
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You can usually fly supersonic over the ocean off both coasts, at Edwards AFB and China Lake NAWS, as mentioned, the huge Nellis AFB ranges are supersonic cleared, Eglin AFB has a supersonic corridor, and there were corridors from southern Colorado (Alamosa) to southern NM and over other unpopulated areas, if they still exist. Exercises often open up airspace for supersonic operations, too. The F-35 is more limited by intake geometry than drag and T/W, so gets up to max Mach pretty quickly in a fairly limited amount of airspace. Older supersonic aircraft like the F-111 and F-4 took a lot longer to get to their Mach 2.2-2.5 limits.
     
  4. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I think there's a supersonic test range in eastern Tennessee....
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 tazandjan, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
    Jim- Supersonic corridors were scattered all over the US at one point, but I usually only used the ones out west, except during exercises. We did blow out $50,000 worth of windows during a supersonic test of the MK-84 AIR (air inflatable retard) at Eglin AFB one day. Winds and weather conditions not as predicted and we got ducting to a small town near Ft Walton Beach.

    I am not as familiar with Navy ranges except China Lake, but am sure they have supersonic corridors and areas for Patuxent River NAS and the Atlantic Test Range, the Navy's version of Edwards AFB.

    We did do supersonic drops of GBU-15s on the Navy's Point Mugu Sea Range, with land impacts.
     
  6. Tim Wells

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    I think we did out mach runs in North Eastern Alabama and just above there in Tennessee somewhere. (F-22)
     
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Tim- I was not sure what the restrictions were on the F-22's supercruise capability.
     
  9. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Too close to one can burst eardrums, although that is rare. Windows are vulnerable because of the large surface area facing the wave of high pressure air.
     
  11. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran
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    If wind and weather are considerations what are the general rules for distance to prevent actual damage like that?

    Was the ban on supersonic transport flight more one of comfort (boom) or was it a real and actual concern for population & housing or just not practical?
     
  12. Hannibal308

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    We used to fly T-38s supersonic Northeast of Phoenix in our MOAs every day...short runs though, and planned.
     
  13. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    #12 Tcar, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
    I experienced many booms. Every Armed Forces Day Air Show at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque as a kid.

    They would have multiple Mach+ flyovers in front of thousands. (F-100, F-101 Voodoo, and ???)

    The plane would scream by with absolutely no sound whatsoever... then... BOOM!

    And you would randomly hear them at almost any time during the year.
    "The sound of freedom".
     
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  15. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran
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    Which raises another interesting question.. is there a "right" speed if you want to drop a bomb on a target? Supersonic drops must be something else.. is it a case of you want to spend minimum time over target so the faster the better? Are there limits and what considerations are there when dropping bombs?
     
  16. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    I'm under the impression that supersonic flight in the T-38 is limited due to fleetwide inlet modifications.

    Yep, loud bang kinda similar to a gunshot. I have been directly underneath a variety of supersonic military aircraft. It's loud and kinda shakes things a bit but not a huge deal.
     
  17. beast

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    Your best bet to experience a sonic boom is to go to Edwards AFB open house. They open up the show with a boom at a set time. Also hang around Rachel, NV during a Red Flag exercise you will hear plenty in the afternoon M-F.
     
  18. ND Flack

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    We used to get the in Orlando every time the shuttle landed - freaked you out if you missed the paper that morning and forgot it was happening! Rattled but never broke windows (ours anyway).

    Adding to the stupid question, the shuttle was always a double boom, one less than a second after the other - are all booms double booms to observers, or was there something about the shuttle that was special?
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Those tests of dropping GBU-15s at Mach 1.6 were for training 48 TFW crews for max glide range releases while the F-111F was staying out of range of air defenses in an undisclosed location. A hard, descending turn was made after weapon release to exit the area while the GBU-15s were guided via data link.

    For the MK-84 AIRs we dropped at 700 KCAS and 200' AGL, those were part of qualification (Seek Eagle) tests to establish envelopes for the weapon/F-111 combination. We used both an F-111F and an F-111D for the tests. The F-111F, even in combat trim with pivot pylons installed, could have easily beaten Darryl Greenamyer's 1010 mph (877 KTAS, ~Mach 1.3) low altitude speed record set in his F-104 in 1976. Nobody would let us do that.
     
  20. Hannibal308

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    Maybe the T-38C...

    T-38A without travel pod was 1.3M@30,000 and doing a supersonic flight was part of the UPT syllabus. These were done in the Williams MOA (over land) which went away after Willie closed sometime after '92.
     
  21. SamuliS

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    I was reading local magazine where was article of Piper Cub. What got my eye was take of speed 50-60 km/h and stall speed of 60 km/h. How the take off speed can be lower than stall? Is stall speed allways told with out flaps or does the ground effect help on take off?
     
  22. CavalloRosso

    CavalloRosso Formula 3
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    That's the stall speed in a clean configuration.
     
  23. CavalloRosso

    CavalloRosso Formula 3
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    I've got one that no one seems to know the answer to:

    When do I need to have my airplane de-iced (or more appropriately anti-iced) assuming the flying surfaces are free of contamination?
     
  24. sigar

    sigar Formula 3
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    Are you asking at what point in flight do you turn on the anti-ice? I've always been trained +5 to -10 c and in visible moisture. However, I've experienced icing outside of those parameters (colder).
     
  25. CavalloRosso

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    No, sorry. I'm very comfortable with deicing operations on my aircraft. I'm asking what meteorological parameters would convince one to get the plane sprayed with anti-ice fluid prior to flight.
     
  26. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran
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  27. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    When the owner of the de-icing operation has planned ahead to account for the expenses related to servicing his new boat..... You probably need to de-ice.
     

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