suddenly people become an expert in style and beauty when a new model comes out???!!

I don't care what public opinion is when I'm spending my money. I like what I like and I buy it if I like it. I actually like to hear all the opinions of people weather or not they can afford a car. They are the ones who write history.

 

Design is like art. Everyone has their own ideas. Sometimes we agree a lot and other times we don't.

I think (and most critics do) that Citizen Kane is one of the best movies ever made. I know many people who think Star Wars is and Citizen Kane is boring.

Who is correct? The answer is we all are.

 

Actually the designers write the aesthetic history.

Most people don't have the talent or the training to create new designs but just think they know better.

We are all entitled to our opinions though. Opinions change over time And the majority is not always correct.

 

i believe peoples opinion will change about this car as it has for ever other fcar that has come out. how many people hated the enzo when it first introduced and now people love it. how many people were up in the air about the 458 when it came out and now people are all open arms about the design. i believe the same thing will happen to the f12 once people get to see it in the flesh.

 

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This is a really myopic view. I for one like the F12, but to stipulate that someone would criticize the looks simply because they can't afford it, is wrong. I can not afford an F12, but I guarantee you I know great deal more about it than most people and MANY of the people that can afford it. Economic advantages do not assure knowledge. I have helped many Fchat users with finding the right car and technical information. I have also helped people with large Ferrari collection collect data and history on their cars. I don't mean for this to sound like an attack, its not, but you can not stipulate that criticism comes only from those that can not afford an object.

 

New Ferrari models always get a bunch of criticism when they first come out, and by the end of the run they are regarded as a high point of design. Never seems to change.

 

Shut down all art museums then. We aren't allowed to have opinions on the masters! Do NOT say anything about this one especially (it sold for $250 million):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Card_Players_%285th_version%29_1894-1895_Paul_Cezanne.jpg

 

I think one of the great things about Ferrari is that they constantly offer new designs technology and innovation.

Porsche is the polar opposite. An all new 911 can't stray too far from the old 911.

Which car museum would you rather visit- Ferrari or Porsche?

 

+1. Witness the world wide excitement about the new 12 cylinder. Of course, opinions are all over the place, and everyone has their own take. If the day ever comes that no one cares about a new Ferrari, then we will be in trouble.

 

Behind a keyboard or more correct a touchscreen these days anyone can be everyone

 

Your an idiot, just because people can't afford something doesn't mean they hate it.

You are either one of the following three people.

1. Very lonely, mid-life crisis
2. Is still a virgin, or has not had sex for a very long time, or has never encountered mating with an attractive partner.
3. You grew up, idolising yourself, thinking everything will come to you, but in reality you where nowhere near what you ever thought you would be.

 

+1000
P.D. @johns930: you got trashed in the other forum,, just give it a rest....

 

But there is still good design and bad design, regardless of what the general population likes or dislikes. The design community tends to identify these good designs and over time they become classics and well regarded by the general population. Car buyers are fickle and tend to like whatever is newest and best, and of course everyone thinks they have good taste.

 

There is good design and there is bad design. There is also avant garde design that is so new, it's difficult for people to understand at first.

The first time you drank a beer, did you like the taste? Did that change over time? Its no different with style.

Sure, not every style or design will be classic. But that doesn't mean you have to play it safe every time you design something. It's a designer's RESPONSIBILITY to push the envelope of taste, as it is with any artist. If they don't we end up with an endless boring stream of the "sameness" forever (aka the 911 and it's weird half brother, the Panamera). Imagine just how great some designer could have done with the Panamera if some idiot in the Porsche Marketing Department didn't tell him to make it look like a big 911.

Take a look at the 275 GTB and the Daytona. At the time the Daytona was introduced, it was not considered good looking when compared to the look of the past. Now what do people think? BOTH are beautiful. BOTH are classics. And BOTH are about as far apart styling wise as you can get.

 

Well, I hate beer. But I think your comments are more about the general public. The Daytona may have been unloved by the press but was considered a design masterpiece within the industry. I am all for the future (hate retro) and pushing the envelope, but I am very much against designs that have some big design element stuck on them to make them look different. The F12 is not pushing any envelope, it is the classic coupe proportion, with an awkward confused growth. Without it, people would have said the car was too boring but with it, it is a mess. Aston Martin has shown again and again that the classic coupe proportion can be made into an exciting, beautiful car without having to come up with a gimmick. They also made the 0ne-77 to prove they can make the same mistakes as everyone else. Obviously, Aston Martin needs to move on, and that may prove difficult, we shall see.
The 458 is the first Ferrari in many many years that is actually beautiful. There have been plenty of cool looking Ferrari's but they were not beautiful. Some of the details are certainly trying too hard but the overall shape is amazing. This will be the only car from the current line up that has any chance of being a classic in the future IMHO.

 

Have a double and relax man. .1% is fun.

 

Wrong. The people who think Citizen Kane are correct. I'm surprised that, as a designer, you confuse what's good or bad with people's personal preferences. That's the mistake that 'civvies' make in these kind of discussions.

 

Sorry to bash you earlier, it was my opinion, and you can have yours.

If Ferrari brought out a SUV model, it would lose fans, guaranteed.

It would ruin the brands historical image, so yes, they care what other people think because we are their market.

They market our product to us, if they don't care about what we think, they would soon become bankrupt... for the newer released models of which they didn't care about us.

 

I think everyone is allowed there opinion. And who cares what it is. I made a comment about a lambo to a girl friend at a resturant saying "I never really wanted a Lambo" the lady at the next table look at me "as if you could have one" in the parking lot was my 599.

I personally think it's cool but will wait to they depreciate to get one. Meanwhile I trying to decide if I trade it on a 458 or just buy one.

 

458beast given a 24-hour ban for name calling.

Mike