Swap the F12 for the 812? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Swap the F12 for the 812?

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Guishank, Aug 30, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
    2,108
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Drive and enjoy, agree with what was said here. To me the F12 is king kong and as much as I like what Ferrari has done the 812 (to me) is not worth a 50k premium. Order one and wait, drive your F12 and pile on kms :)
     
    Caeruleus11 and day355 like this.
  2. mdwac

    mdwac Rookie

    Sep 30, 2007
    15
    I can’t answer how much the math difference will be, but I did switch from an F12 to an 812 and I find the 812 to be a much better car to drive on daily basis. The look has worn on me as well. I am very happy with the switch and consider it a pretty meaningful upgrade
     
  3. RamsHmb

    RamsHmb Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2017
    1,030
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    James
    Couldn’t agree more, mdwac. Picked up my 812 yesterday in GF and absolutely love it. I did the diffuser in black and actually prefer the back compared to the f12 I owned. I wouldn’t have said that from the photos but in person it really is a stunning car, in a good way. Downside is it does get a LOT more attention versus my f12. Only a day in but I had people pulling over and taking pics while I was waiting for to go food last night. The whole exeperince is so much more modern. I am really surprised at how different, again in a good way, it truly is.
     
  4. wings

    wings Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
    839
    All these cars with rare exception depreciate. Most are not investments. If you want appreciation you may have too look elsewhere.
     
  5. Nugen russ

    Nugen russ Rookie

    Sep 8, 2018
    5
    Full Name:
    kperzan
    We can’t predict the future but 812 is day and night compared to F12. So much faster and nimbler. You should pull the trigger IMO. Good luck! PS try not to pay over sticker
     
    RamsHmb likes this.
  6. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,001
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Following other big 2 seat Ferraris, with a finger in the wind for inflation, I say BUY an F12 when they get to EU 150 k and you wont go too far wrong...unless the economic doom mongers are right, in which case SELL everything and look to be the first person to pick up a sub 100 K F12 in a couple of years. Easy !
     
    LVP488, dustman and MDEL like this.
  7. VG221

    VG221 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2018
    40
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Vito Garofalo
    Drive that F12 like you stole it for a couple of years and then reevaluate at that time. You may find that you still love it and want to keep it. Worst case scenario you can jump over to a 812 at a serious discount to MSRP
     
    slm likes this.
  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,755
    so much faster and nimbler? so much? this sounds exaggerative to me.
     
    crinoid, Roland1688 and Gullwing like this.
  9. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    I always thought the F12 very fast. But I never screamed "holy ****!!!" when I stomped on it. I might laugh and I was always impressed, but I never unintentionally uttered explicatives.

    Well, I sure did and with gusto when flogging an 812. The 812 is about 70hp more, but also 6% shorter gearing. So thats worth about 48hp +70 = about 120hp and my seat of the pants o meter says the 812 felt about 150hp more over the F12. SOPOM is not the most accurate measure. :) Yes it feels that much of a difference. Add in the rear steer, and simply a more sporty and even angry demeanor and the 812 simply out does all the good stuff the F12 has going for it. As it should. I was expecting the 812 to be better. I was shocked at the magnitude of the difference. It was almost like a whole new model. I think the 812's "personality" is far more sporty than the 488's!
     
  10. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    I don't think the total the hp variance of the 812 is technically greater than the 70 hp regardless of the gearing. I think gearing does makes it accelerate faster but actually it doesn't really have a significant advantage until above about 160Kph and also has a slightly lower max speed. I think that's due to the power curves are different (as are redline by 250rpm) and the 6% lower gearing is matched to it for the SOPOM feeling and the increased straight line performance. Pulls harder at the upper revs. It is the VS that should bring the power.
     
    crinoid likes this.
  11. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    Im telling you the 812 feels faster, more alive, more potent, more connected, and more of a sports car than the F12- at all times. And with little in the way of loss of comfort. There might be some, but its not a huge difference. I went into it thinking: sure, it will be better... I came away with a huge smile and saying OMG that is insane. (the good kind).
     
  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    I understand you. Just not sure if you were serious that gearing actually created greater total HP. The modern NA V12s are so special vehicles. Just not a V8 or less guy.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  13. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting

    Aug 30, 2016
    244
    I own an F12 and have driven the 812 around Fiorano and had one on loan for a long weekend. So I've thrashed the 812 and done some distance driving. I didn't find it much of a difference from the F12 other than the suspension making it feeling more planted. Which didn't make the car more exciting to drive, just more comfortable. If you drive a 599 then the F12 there is a huge difference, all positive. The same can't be said about the 812 from the F12.

    I'd agree with @Caeruleus11 that the gearing change is noticeable - the 812 revs a lot quicker. I've still ordered an 812 but I don't really expect to keep it very long, whereas the F12 I'm not selling.
     
    crinoid, MDEL, Solid State and 2 others like this.
  14. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    I can only relate my experience. I think everyone has their own reaction and I wouldn't usually disagree with someone who says for them it feels similar to the F12b. For me the 812 actually didn't feel more planted, it felt move lively (not twitchy, just more up on its toes, and I had my F12 aligned to be a little more neutral). I was really surprised by that and the more revvy nature of the engine. All the various improvements/ changes mean the car feels quite a bit faster than the F12- and I am not knocking the F12- it is fabulous. You would expect the 812 to be better. I was just surprised by the magnitude of the improvement.
     
    of2worlds, RamsHmb, Gullwing and 2 others like this.
  15. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Jerry it’s amazing how Ferrari was able to improve substantially the 812 in relation to the F12. Many have considered the F12 to be a car that is too fast for the road and personally I couldn’t agree more. Anyone that has driven the F12 fast on the road knows that only a part of the total power available is used and as soon as that kind of red line is crossed the driving becomes too scary and extremely dangerous. When you mention the 812 feels a bit faster than the F12 I presume it also feels a bit safer and I’m curious to know what you've felt in that particular.
     
  16. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    That is a good question Mario. I can only tell you I never felt the F12 as unsafe. Of course, any car can be unsafe in the wrong hands. I also think it depends on your local road surface. I've driven in some places where the roads themselves are more slippery than others. Fortunately for me, my local roads are fairly grippy. The amazing thing about the F12, and then the 812 even more so, is how it uses all this technology to safely deploy all that power, without resorting to some form of all-wheel-drive. I would want more time with the 812, driving on more familiar roads, to be absolutely sure, but from my memory of the drive in an 812, it seems like it is even more refined in terms of how it uses the F1-Trac + eDiff + who knows what else to get all that power down. I think the rear steer and these systems make the car feel smaller than it is and the "personality" of the car is more playful, whereas the personality of the F12b is a little more serious. To be sure, it's not the same, but it reminds me of the 458 in how immediate reactions are, and how searing the sound is. Put all this together and, for me at least, it creates a wonderful sense of fun.
     
    of2worlds, RamsHmb and MDEL like this.
  17. GameMaker

    GameMaker Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2014
    443
    WA State
    I never felt that the F12 was dangerous because my other car (a 2015 Corvette Z07) is a truly dangerous car. The F12 plants the power down so nicely that you don't tend to end up sideways unless you want to. That being said I've been driving high horsepower cars for many years around here and definitely have the experience to handle something like the F12 (which I put 5k miles on this year already!).

    Everyone I've talked to that has an 812 has said that the car is in a different league than the F12. This is why I ordered the luggage with my 812, because we are going to put some serious miles on it ;)
     
    crinoid likes this.
  18. Dolceexte

    Dolceexte Formula 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    1,008
    Definitely well designed where the 812 feels smaller than it is. More nimble and amazing experience.
     
  19. Nugen russ

    Nugen russ Rookie

    Sep 8, 2018
    5
    Full Name:
    kperzan
    For hose who haven’t done Corso Pilota Advnced In the 812 and 488. I highly recommend it. For those who didn’t feel much difference I imagine they only drove the 812 around the block. Whoever got one Big Congrats and enjoy!

    PS It sounds super mean with an upgraded exhaust system.

    .
     
    Robert P likes this.
  20. Dontbethatguy

    Dontbethatguy Karting

    Nov 25, 2017
    68
    ATX
    These questions are always so hard to answer because they’re so subjective. What one finds well worth paying for another will say don’t do it. It’s all personal preference, tolerance of additional depreciation, and, of course, ability and willingness to pay. I LOVE my F12 and have no desire to get rid of it. I have no doubt that the 812 is a better car all around for driving, but I prefer the F12 in looks. I decided to buy a 458 spider with the cash I would have to spend to upgrade to an 812. I love it because the cars are so incredibly different, so it’s great to experience such different extremes of Ferrari. The 458 really isn’t fast, but it’s a LOT of fun...especially with the top down.

    I’d personally keep the F12 to enjoy a while before trading up, and it looks like that’s what you decided. Regardless of what you do, enjoy the car and drive it! Both cars will make you smile.
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  21. speedbird1000

    speedbird1000 Rookie

    Jun 29, 2008
    41
    Europe
    .....add a full Novitec N largo exhaust and map to the F12, as I have, and power then the same as 812, same red line too at 8900, but the sound even more incredible, demonic I'd say......then both are 7 speed so 812 "shorter geared" then I assume pay back will have to come via longer higher gears on the 812?, so over 120 mph F12 might feel faster again...switch the F12 to Race and the shifts are v quick too, close to 812... Then the looks of the F12 are special, a great design..... 812 too, especially seeing actual car I thought, though perhaps slightly less pretty at the rear than the F12...and which is gonna hold better value ?.....in the next few years that likely would be the F12 which has an F in it by the way......

    Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

Share This Page