Swirls in paint? How to correct?

Hi Dave:
1. What method are you going to use to polish / remove the swirls, by hand, using a DA oribital polisher, or rotary polisher?
2. Looking at your car, it looks very clean, but as you want the paint looking 100%, go down the deconamination route first, a good iron fallout remover followed by " claying the car ", should suffice. Again looking at the condition of your car, a medium to light clay bar should do the job, feel the paint with your hands when wet, does it feel smooth or can you feel roughness?
3. So now the paint has been deconaminated you are ready to remove the paint swirls by polishing.
4. Looking at the damage on your paint the use of a good DA should be sufficient. You could try it by hand Dave but it will be bloody hard work my friend?
5. Always use the least agressive pad and polish to do the job, test an area first Dave.
6. The polish you use is your choice, but i prefer Menzerna polishes.
7. Realistically a medium cut pad and medium cut polish should be fine Dave.
8. Take your time and keep checking the paint for heat, a medium amount of heat will be generated, but if the paint is getting very hot you may be moving the DA to slow or concentrating on one area too long.
9. Keep checking your work Dave, polish inside with good lighting. Then bring her out into the sunshine and check again from all angles.
10. Change or clean your pad often. You will tell when the pad is overloaded and requires cleaning.
11. Cover or mask off all trim, especially black trim, polish splatter will mark black trim, machine polishing will damage trim Dave. 1 inch masking tape is ideal.
12. Once you are happy with the paint finish, wipe down all over with a good isopropyl alcohol, now you are ready to wax and seal the paint.
In my opinion the damage to your paint is normal, inflicted by washing over the years etc.
For some years i find Ferrari paint fairly soft, so try and stay away from deep / heavy cut polish, you can inflict more harm than good, trust me i have learnt the hard way!
Dave - i am taking it for granted you know this cars history inside out, has it had any paint work carried out?, ideally you should take paint depth readings, but this will not identify re-sprays etc. You will not or should not remove paint depth using a DA, however, if you start to see the polish turn red on the pad Dave then proceed very carefully.

 

I’ll start by saying I’m not a pro but something you have to think about is why/how the swirl marks got in the paint and what are you going to do differently so you don’t get them again? Hopefully a pro can answer this but every time you polish you take some of the paint off. How many times in the life of the car can you polish it before you wear thru the paint? While it would be nice to have a car with perfect paint maybe that’s not always the best plan.

 

Autodetailing hits it on the head! Perfect.

I'll echo some points, as I DIY'd my 348.

Paint meter for sure, you want to be sure of the thickness. DA polisher for sure, they're very forgiving. Start light and get heavier as needed. recheck paint thickness as you go if you DIY or need to go heavier in places.

sjd

 

Get the chemical guys DA polisher kit. It comes with a few nice pads and 4 levels of compound. It takes some practice and they have some good videos. I used my wife’s BMW which is gray and had some bird dropping etches. Those took some heavier compound to get out but the swirls she had from car washes was easy. The key I found is holding the polisher with enough Weight to allow it to rotate properly and do small sections (2x2) at a time.
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https://www.chemicalguys.com/torq-torq15da-15mm-long-throw-random-orbital-polisher-kit-8-items/BUF505X.html?gtmListValue=Category: polishing-kits

 

Swirl marks in my paint, why? - most paint defects such as swirls and light scratches etc normally occur through " poor washing techniques ". There are thousands of posts on this topic, on every car forum, and at the end of the day, its your car and how you get it clean is your business, if you are happy with the results thats all that matters.
However, by spending a little time and yes, a little money, you can reduce the risk of inflicting damage to your beloveds paint.
Again, i am not saying my method is the best, but it works for me and my customers cars.
1. Using a good pressure washer ( Kranzle ) rinse the entire car, pay particular attention to the inner wheel arches where dirt builds up, once the arches are done, rinse down from the top to the bottom, i have always used cold water too.
Note - if the windscreen and front valence are covered in flies, now is a good time to mist with a good dilute APC.
2. Time to foam her up - applying a thick layer of foam to the car works wonders to break up the dirt still clinging to the paint. Whilst the foam is doing its work, you can set about cleaning the inner arches and alloys by hand. Again there is much debate on what foam to use, personally i like a thick foam that clings and slowly works its way down the car, this gives me time to clean the alloys as stated. Caution - do not foam when hot / in direct sunlight.
3. Time to rinse again - start from the top and work your way down the car.
4. Foam her up again - now using an old cloth, wipe the inner lip of each wheel arch. Get a new cloth and gently wipe the very bottom of each sill.
5. With the foam still on you are ready to wash by hand, use the 2 bucket method ( See You Tube ) and i prefer to use a pure lambswool wash mitt, remember to rinse your mitt thoroughly after each panel, some detailers use 2 mitts, one for the top half of the car and one for the lower.
Note - i use 2 large 25ltr buckets, this way you will never allow the mitt to touch the bottom where the dirt will settle.
6. Rinse car down to remove shampoo residue.
7. Using a small portable air blower, remove as much water from the car.
8. Now microfibre towel dry the entire car, you may have to repeat step 7 to remove difficult trapped water, eg wing mirrors.
9. Protect with your wax of choice.

With a little practice, the above method takes exactly 1 hour, and that includes setting up.
Hints and tips:
Use a good quality shampoo.
Use a pure lambs wool wash mitt.
Do not use a synthetic sponge, if you prefer a sponge, use a professional " tile grouters sponge ", these sponges will release the dirt when rinsed.
Wash in straight lines along the body work, not round and round.
Throw your chamois leather in the bin and use a large microfibre drying towel instead.
Ceramic coating your cars paint will reduce the amount of washing damage and make your car so much easier to wash and dry.

Machine polishing paint.
The only time you will remove the paint thickness on your car is during " heavy compounding with an aggressive pad and polish " or when " wet sanding ".
Expect to remove around 1 to 2 microns of paint or clearcoat when heavy compounding - paint depth gauge a necessity!
Normal wet sanding with 2000 or 3000 grade paper will remove the same, but a lot easier so be very carefull when wet sanding - paint gauge a necessity!

All car manufacturers paint varies in depth and hardness.
On average most metallic paint finishes consist of a base colour coat ( the colour ), and a hard top " clear coat / lacquer " for gloss and protection.
This clear coat can vary from 30 to 50 microns in thickness , a human hair is 50 microns thick in comparison.
Single stage paint can also vary, but on average it is around 30 to 60 microns thick.
Remember the digital paint depth gauge is measuring the total thickness of all the paint, primer etc, so expect to see results of 130 microns to 200microns, dependant on where you measure on the cars panels.

A good quality DA orbital polisher will give great results, the stronger more powerfull units like Rupes and Flex will also remove heavy defects so are a good alternative to the true Rotary Polisher.
Get a DA Polisher first, practice on an old car, get used to the feel, speed and amount of pressure needed to allow the pad and polish to work.
Note - the average DA is not really suited to heavy compounding, it cannot spin fast enough to break down the heavy compounds in the polish, so i would stick to medium cut polishes, no higher.

When you remove the swirls and very fine imperfections in your cars paint you are " refining " the surface finish, a medium cut pad and medium cut polish will not remove paint thickness, if you are still dubious, get a digital paint gauge and measure before and after, see what measurements you get?

 

do you recommend using deionized water?

 

I was referring to a machine polishing where you removing swirls/scratches in the paint. A lot of the people selling the equipment kind of gloss over the issue of removing paint and how many paint corrections you can do on an average car. Hopefully an expert will chime in on this subject.

 

The Griots system works, use the orbital polisher at the speeds noted and just tape the seams and edges of everything off, that is where you can wear through the paint. Your paint looks quite correctable.

 

There is an age old well known detailing saying " Polish to Correct - Wax to Protect ".
This is the difference between pro detailers and the average guy.
Mention polish or polishing to a detailer and he will automatically refer to methods of Paint Correction with a machine polisher, where as the normal guy thinks of Polish as a product to make his paint look glossy after washing.
The detailer will spend 2 to 3 days sometimes more " Polishing " a car, once he has corrected the paint he will then move onto the " Protection " stage, be it wax, ceramic coating etc, etc.
AK Jim - I machine polish cars for a living, and believe me you never stop learning and no 2 cars paint is the same.
Yes you have to be realistic sometimes with the customer as to whats achievable with the paint, a deep scratch aint going to come out, but can be " softened " after polishing.
Taking paint depth readings can tell you a lot about a cars history, if the majority of the car is reading 180 microns and the front wing reads 250 microns, there is a good chance the wing has been re-sprayed, so care has to be taken here.
Single stage Honda paint is a nightmare to polish, its like polishing butter, even medium cut polish can inflict marks, so you have to play around with pad and polish grades to see what works best.
Classic cars can also be troublesome, the main question being, how much top coat has the painter applied, has it had a bare metal re-spray or simply a re-spray over the top of the original coat?
Quite right Moysiuan - paint thickness is reduced on swage lines etc, so its always best to mask over these when machine polishing.
The biggest risk when machine polishing, especially with a rotary polisher is Friction / Heat Build Up, the rotary spins very fast and generates heat quickly, so you have to learn how to move the rotary across the surface to achieve the desired results.
When things go wrong here, its not that you have polished through the paint layers per say, its the fact that you have concentrated on one area too long and the paint has burnt through, if you get my drift?
Metal panels can absorb more heat than plastic panels, a plastic painted wing or valence will soon allow heat to build so again extra care has to be taken here.

AK Jim - Machine polishing paint.
The only time you will remove the paint thickness on your car is during " heavy compounding with an aggressive pad and polish " or when " wet sanding ".
Expect to remove around 1 to 2 microns of paint or clearcoat when heavy compounding - paint depth gauge a necessity!
Normal wet sanding with 2000 or 3000 grade paper will remove the same amount, but a lot easier so be very carefull when wet sanding - paint gauge a necessity!

Based on the above, and taking a car with metallic paint and standard clearcoat at 50 microns. Using a heavy cut compound with a cutting pad, you would be able to machine polish the car 25 times before reaching the colour coat, sadly then its a trip to the paint shop!
Why you would want to aggressively polish the car 25 times is another subject?

But i have to repeat myself - when removing paint swirls and very minute scratches, we are simply refining the paint surface / finish, we are not removing any paint in this process.

Edward 96GTS - if you live in a hard water area then i would highly recomend using deionized water. The purification filters can be expensive though so best to shop around first.
I looked into a " reverse osmosis " system for purifying my washing water, this water system is widely used by most pro window cleaners today, but the amount of waste water it creates meant it was too expensive.

 

Reverse osmosis water is acidic in ph. Just dry the car quickly, maybe even use a blower for that purpose, and all will be fine.

 

If you decide to purchase a good quality DA Dave, i would try and buy a complete bundle with pads and polish included. Due to the way the DA operates getting the correct pad is a must.
We all have to start somewhere, there is a host of information out there, practice on an old car first, get used to the feel of the machine, speed of movement, and the pressure required for the pad to operate correctly.
Remember polish and the action of the machine will damage /stain trim, especially black trim so make sure to mask off first.
Buy a good inspection light to check your work.
Post pictures of your pride n joy when finished please.

 

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response! I was considering taking Esoterics detailing class, not sure I will but I think I’d like the experience.

 

Great idea to attend a detailing course. You will see and learn so much.

 

All this talk of paint correction may seem too intimidating for a novice..
Understanding the paint you own is key..

The lazy mans way out is to hand apply a glazing polish..Glaze contains oils that fill tiny swirl lines in paint...its a temporary fix but to some its is a conquest..

I think Ammo's Larry..said it best..these angel hair swirl scratches are called Love marks..Every time you quick detail or wax a car, the micro fibre scratches the top coat again..I have tried nano fibre clothes and it appears to do less damage..but it is a necessary evil in cleaning.

 

True, not all car owners have the time, equipment or energy to spend on their cars paint like pro detailers do, but by just dipping your toe into this crazy world of paint correction, the results can be amazing and so rewarding.

So rewarding in fact, that gone are the days of washing your car with a sponge and bucket and then applying a glaze like Autoglym Super Resin Polish etc.

The picture below is of my car's boot / trunk, i have tried to get as close as possible to show the paint and not the reflection.
The car is used every week, admittedly not in the rain, and more or less washed every week as well.
When i got the car one year ago, the paint was in good condition, but the process was:
1. Wash and decontaminate with an " iron dissolver ", e.g. Autosmart Red 7, claying was not required.
2. A light polish with the DA, using a white pad and 3M Fine Cut Polish, then finished off with a black pad and Menzerna final finish 3000.
3. Seal paint with 2 coats of ProteX, (from Corrosion ).
4. After each wash i apply Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer.

With the correct washing technique, you should limit the amount of damage to your cars paint.
I really do try and stay away from using quick detailers or wipe downs when the paint is lightly covered in dust etc and dry.

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Yes, some paints can be a nightmare to keep in good condition, ie Lexus single stage paints, but inflicting swirls into your paint is not part of the cleaning process and not a necessary evil.

Ps this Cavallino badge is being replaced with the correct one for the HGTE model.

 

This is spot on. If you want to properly correct the paint you need to start by using a true polishing compound.

As mentioned, combo glazes/polishes fill the imperfections, and work really well…until you take the car for its first wash .

I’ll be the first to admit, I use the cheat method…good from far but far from good!


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Here is a great three step process:

1. Driver to detailer
2. Pay detailer
3. Pick up car and marvel at the results

Over the life this will be cheaper and better than DIY.

Unfortunately, you will need to care for the paint yourself between detailing. That much will not change.