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360 Temperature to preheat before starting engine

Discussion in '360/430' started by FiatAbarth850, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    This is my first Spring with the 360. It's been sitting all winter in a mostly unheated facility. It's still going down into the -15*C range here but the roads are looking clean and dry on some days. I'm anxious to drive the car again but am wondering about cold starts.

    Is there a temperature below which the engine shouldn't be cold started but should be preheated before starting?

    How do you preheat your engine (if you ever do)? I could heat the building but its huge and nothing else in it needs heat so it would be a big waste of energy.

    Thanks for your input.
     
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  3. Red 27

    Red 27 Formula Junior
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    Feb 2, 2008
    968
    San Diego, Ca
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    Dave
    I would worry more about cold tires on cold road surface than cold starts. If your coolant tank is in a liquid state I think you are good to fire her up. Proceed with caution, I am in southern California :D. I do not know of any preheating function from the factory before starting the car.
     
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  4. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3
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    Jun 20, 2017
    1,312
    Melbourne Florida
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    KGC
    Be aware of the cold tires cold roads as Dave has mentioned. I was victimized by that and quite surprised when I took off from a traffic light late at night. A 360 degree spin and then some. Late at night, all alone, no damage and never left the road, but...

    Like Dave, I live in the warm climate of Florida and almost never experience the "cold" effects on our cars. There used to be a company that made pre-oilers for my 911s. Probably the only issue is the "dry" engine. But also like Dave said, it doesn't appear to be anything Ferrari addresses. No worries brother. Enjoy
     
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  5. Dewinator

    Dewinator F1 Rookie
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    Jun 22, 2017
    3,112
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  6. catdog

    catdog Karting

    Aug 18, 2010
    150
    check out for the tires, if they are Pirelli PZero's they have very very poor performance at such low temps and have a risk of cracking. In contrast, the Michelin PS4 are a bit more forgiving of low temperatures but will still have poor traction like hockey pucks at very low temps.
     
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  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    14,020
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    Minneapolis here. It went down to -12 this winter. Just wait till its 40-50 degrees F and start the engine. It's just like a Porsche engine or a VW engine. I use 5w-40 in mine and I've been driving her the last two to three weekends. Ive even driven it in 30 degree weather but the engine took warmer to heat. As it is my thermostat is stuck closed so I have to wait a long time for it to warm up. It's on my to do list this spring..
     
  9. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2019
    942
    Memphis, TN
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    John
    I seem to recall there's a lower limit on the temperature for the self-learning cycle, as in bringing it back from a dead/off battery. I think it is 5C (41F). I tried to find the source but it eluded me.
     
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  10. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Thanks to everyone for your comments.

    Cold roads and tires - not a problem for me. Here in central Canada we drive on very cold snow covered roads or ice covered roads for a good portion of the year so we're all practiced at dealing with low traction.

    Coolant being liquid - if the coolant tank is frozen then there would be bigger, much more expensive issues like a cracked block or heads to deal with.

    Oil viscosity - is definitely a consideration. The car has Redline 5-40 in it so the oil should be a reasonable viscosity for a very cold start.

    Wait for 40-50 degrees - Without adding a heat source I don't think the car would reach that temperature here until sometime in late May because of overnight cold soaking.

    Low temp self-learning - I'd love to know if that applies or not.

    The reason that I'm asking the question is that I once had a pick-up that would blow out its cam box gasket if you started it when the engine was at -10*F or colder. That engine needed to be preheated with an electric block heater or coolant recirculating heater. So, I was wondering if there were any similar quirks with the 360 engine or transmission, any known concerns about really cold starts.
     
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  11. flash32

    flash32 F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,649
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    I think this is what you are referring to .. sounds like you should not start a car from an off or dead battery unless over a certain temp. The ecu relearn happens when the vehicle is coming back from an "off" battery disconnect switch or a dead battery Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
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  13. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Flash32 - Well, that sounds pretty important. Thank you very much for the reference!! I really appreciate you taking the time to post.
    EastMemphis - Thank-you very much for introducing the issue. Much appreciated.

    Looks like the first start of the year is going to have to be delayed for a while.
     
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  14. flash32

    flash32 F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,649
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    Dominick
    Just a fyi ..that came from a scuderia users manual .. look at your users manual ..should be in there as well

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  15. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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    Bill H.
    Thanks flash...I'll check it out.
     
  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    14,020
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    Curt
    The other option I"ve considered is putting one of those little air heaters in the garage. FYI my POS uninsulated garage in this rental house only went to -1 despite the -12 and -17 below night temps.

    I've noticed that with the low temps there were contractions at the aluminum pipe fittings and radiator hoses at the front of the car with some leakage of coolant. With regular driving and normal operating temps this has gone away. I was worried about cracked blocks as well in the low temps but didn't happen fortunately.
     
  17. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
    1,436
    Canada
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    Fred
    I have driven my car when it has been extremely cold outside (but no snow on the roads).
    The trick is to let it idle for about 5 mins to get circulation going and then stay below 3K RPM
    until the oil temperature comes off the lower peg.

    If you are concerned about the really cold oil temperature then install a 120VAC magnetic oil heater to the oil sump (yes, I know its alum).
    Figure a way to make it stick (use duct tape?).

    I make the above suggestions because I did not read where you said that you are starting out from a dead battery.
    Take the above suggestions ONLY if the battery was on a trickle charger , like mine is when not in use. That means that the ECU
    settings were preserved from the last time it was driven.

    Good luck!
     
  18. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Thanks Curt. I carefully checked my coolant before storing the car last fall. It had had a complete fluid change just before I bought it but that was done in a warm climate where coolant freezing isn't an issue so I had to make sure that the antifreeze was at proper strength...it was.

    The building that my car is in is very well insulated but it hasn't had any heat in it since last December. As a result, the building cold soaked this winter when we had a 10 day stretch of -50*C weather, as did the car. Both of them are still sitting at -25*C as the building insulation is keeping the cold in.

    Thanks to Dominick and John, now that I know about the minimum temperature learning issue I'm going to heat the building and the car and will do its first start on a warm day. The battery has been out of the car all winter (ctek attached) so the car will definitely have to do self learning when it starts up.
     
  19. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Dominick, I finally made it out to where I store the car. Turns out that the Modena owners manual is different from the Scud manual. No mention of temperature range, just wait 10 seconds before starting the car. My Ferrari dealership told me that there would be no problem with starting the car below 5*C so I'm probably going to try it later this week-end. Fingers crossed!
    Bill
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  20. flash32

    flash32 F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,649
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    I looked at 2 360 WSM and you are correct - it doesn't state that .....but in Ferrari fashion did they learn something after they printed manuals or is it because of different engine management systems.. I cannot answer that
     
  21. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Yes, same question I had when I saw the difference. For me, going forward, I'm planning to "blend" the two options...try not to start the car if it is <5*C and the battery has been disconnected unless it is imperative to do so. That shouldn't happen very often as I don't plan to disconnect the battery for winter storage unless I'm working on the car. I'll be trying the cold start on Tuesday, I'll let you know if anything goes wrong.
     
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  22. FiatAbarth850

    FiatAbarth850 Karting

    Aug 2, 2020
    84
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Full Name:
    Bill H.
    Well, it was just above freezing in the building this morning and I decided to try starting the car. I went through the relearn-starting procedure and the engine fired a couple of times then quit. Tried a restart and it fired right up, idled a little bit rough for about 60 seconds then smoothed out and ran just fine. I'm very pleased!!

    I've also discovered that I apparently have to re-program the windows as they don't know where to close. Interesting.
     
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