The 15 New Models by 2026 - What We Know

So that would mean another 6-7 years cycle for the 812 replacement. The last VS in 2030/31 if there will be one.

 

Interesting an engine concept that has a closer linkage to Ferrari’s top class racing activities is disappointing. Yet most customers have never seen a large displacement Ferrari V12 engine win a race in a Ferrari car!

Seems to me the brand is moving closer to its roots. Which will be very disappointing for many whose exposure to the brand was initiated from LDM’s marketing department!


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Ferrari V12s won many F1 races...hence, the heritage (I know, none were 'large displacement').

The only reason V12s are no longer used in racing is (unmentionable thoughts) rules and Ferrari is not "bigger" than the rules, so they must comply.

A V6+turbo+heavy battery pack is not interesting...no thanks. It is, at the end of the day, an overly complex compliance car, nothing special in that...certainly not Ferrari's main claim to fame.

 

As you know all F1 winning Ferrari V12 engines in the last 60+ years are as puny as the 3L V6 (largest is 3.5L). There is little to no carryover to the production 6.5 engine except number of cylinders.

The V12 wasn’t banned because it held a performance advantage. GS built a V8, V10 & V12 and unfortunately it was determined that the V12 was the most compromised. We have probably seen the last V12 race engines as circuit design and material restrictions make it like taking a knife to a gun fight.

I do understand the love affair with the V12 but hopefully the current generation can make the Ferrari V6+turbo+hybrid combination legendary.






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The main reason for dismissing the V12 (on road or race cars) is that it is not an efficient solution anymore. When one relies on carburetors to feed an ICE, the challenge is to have as much fuel/air mix sucked into the cylinder. And the smaller the cylinder, the more would be sucked (relative to the cylinder capacity): so to some extent, there is more to gain from reducing the cylinder capacity than to lose from the increased number of cylinders (and the added weight and complexity).
With the technical evolution, the tipping point has been moving towards less, higher capacity cylinders for decades; the first Ferrari had a 12-cylinder a 1,500 cc but this kind of set-up has been given up a long time ago, irrespective of whatever legal or racing rules.

 

http://www.atlasf1.com/2000/feb02/tytler.html

user-to-user comments back in 2000:
https://forums.autosport.com/topic/6614-why-did-fia-ban-the-use-of-v12-engines/

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-returning-to-v10-v12-engines-would-not-be-accepted-jean-todt-5020602/5020602/
F1 stakeholders are due to begin talks within the next few weeks about concepts for engines beyond 2020, amid talk that the sport should move away from the current turbo hybrid V6 rules.

One suggestion has been for a simpler engine, which could be as powerful as the current engines but also bring back the noise of the past that some fans are craving.

But Todt has ruled the idea out, stating that F1 has to remain road relevant with its technology.

"It will not be accepted by society," said Todt in the latest issues of the FIA's magazine Auto about the potential for V10 or V12 engines.

"We have a responsibility to run an organisation monitored by global society. And global society will not accept that."

https://thejudge13.com/2020/11/23/v12s-make-return-to-f1-push-forward-carbon-neutral-world/

 

So in 2000 the F1 teams had come to the conclusion that "10 cylinders is the optimal configuration for a 3-litre engine" - just as in 1947 Ferrari came to the conclusion that 12 cylinders was the optimal solution for a 1.5 litre engine.
It's almost 2023 now, my guess is that a 3-litre V6 (even not turbocharged) would be more efficient than a 3-litre V12.
And a turbocharged engine will be more efficient no matter what (when there was competition between turbo and NA engines, rules where constantly changing to decrease the capacity of the turbocharged engines to keep some parity - until the rule makers gave up and just forbid turbocharging).
The hybrid forcing is totally different though, since for now it's driven purely by political considerations.

 

the ultimate conclusion is no more combustion powered racing...which is exactly where it is headed in less than 2 decades if automobile manufacturers succumb to EV only, they will not be developing engines for motorsport that could have a 'technology transfer' to production engines...

current F1 muffled engines are not crowd pleasers

formula-e is not interesting, so the whole thing disappears

 

Like Ferrari, they will not survive the all-electric era, and the fact that he is convinced of the contrary expresses their complete disconnection from the real world.
In a feeling of omnipotence and self-satisfaction, they think that their reality will become that of everyone else.
It's a huge mistake

 

The all electric era is pure utopia.
The ecological cost will be immense in the end.
Combustion engine with efuel or hydrogen is the only way to go.

 

It's too late for Ferrari, they are on the way to full electric, with colossal investments. Many buildings that will constitute an immense complex intended for electrification come out in front of the hybridization department.
They are convinced that building the battery made in Maranello, will be equivalent to building a V 12 ...
They are totally disconnected from reality with Apple guys in all departments taking notes...
Vigna is convinced that all customers are eagerly awaiting full electric F-cars.

 

Just make it STOP!

https://news.mit.edu/2022/sediment-deep-sea-mining-0921

The ocean’s deep-sea bed is scattered with ancient, potato-sized rocks called “polymetallic nodules” that contain nickel and cobalt — minerals that are in high demand for the manufacturing of batteries, such as for powering electric vehicles and storing renewable energy, and in response to factors such as increasing urbanization. The deep ocean contains vast quantities of mineral-laden nodules, but the impact of mining the ocean floor is both unknown and highly contested.

 

A German Ferrari dealer talks about new models coming in 2023.

1.) in Spring we can expect a Roma Spider
2.) Later there will be an 812 replacement. Not clear whether it's a V12 or V8 and/or hybrid.
3.) and there should also be a lightweight version of the SF90. Personally curious about its pricing.



Cheers.

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it makes no sense, I don't see how they'll benefit at all from making an in-house battery as no one will care at all

I have several ev's and I have no idea who manufacturers any of their batteries, quite simply they all drive extremely similar in terms of power delivery / 'engine' experience

 

Roma Spider debut well known, March 2023 in Maroc.

Marcel Massini

 

Ok…so THAT would be interesting. I would most definitely be interested in a hopped up V6 that did away with the heavy/complicated electrical nonsense.

 

Would that simply be the 296 Challenge Car? (not GT3, but Challenge)

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148945492/

 

If Ferrari ignores the fact that ICE will all be but illegal in many areas in about 10 years, that will be a good thing for the company?

You do realize Vigna has no choice in the matter? If you want to whinge about P&R elements, there's a forum for that here. Coterie onanism at its finest? (or worse?) Hard to tell.

 

I never cared about the environment in the 80s vis a vis Ferrari.

The first question I always ask with every new Ferrari is, "does it perform better than the predecessor?"

I remember back in the 80s, activists would hate on my love for Ferrari because they were gas guzzlers. The domestic gang would pooh-pooh Ferrari' 'over-engineered' and 'exotic' maintenance requirements.

What was old is new again.

 

Yes, I know you think music is 'objective.' That there is a scientific unanimity on what is 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to what 'sounds' good.

That's precisely the point I've been making.

Future cars can sound like *anything* you want, so you can hypothetically/philosophically select *your* soundtrack. But then the whinge will be it's not 'real.'

As straight pipes and exhaust, I tell kids these days to 'touch grass' and stop playing video games too.
Let me guess, you believe Video Games will slowly die out too?

 

Of course you would call the latest Ferrari Big Macs, you're not their target customer, so they achieved what they set out to do. If you liked it, then it would have meant they failed.

 

Strawmen are always interesting things. The original challenge is electric is quiet. Not that it sounds good.

My response was to show electric is anything but 'quiet.' That is objectively measured in DB levels. Either it registers or it doesn't on any meter.

Now the goal posts have been moved to not if they are quiet, but it 'sounds bad.'

Yet, we all know the future means you can produce any sound, albeit artificially.
oh my, the end is upon us, and the five senses!

Can we go back to an era where Diet Soda, Radios, Cameras, Fragrance, and Massage chairs are banned from society?

Real, is all accept. Nevermind if I can't tell the difference.

@day355 you know, kind of like this?



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but but but the brake cooling tubes on the corners I expect will be the response

Sure, how about then the other 95% of the 'intake?' Or hell, the 348.



Why am I quibbling about this? You all know why! => Purity and all.

 

The demise of ICE won’t be that rapid. I think that many are finally waking up to the reality of EV. The sheer trifecta of impossibility: procuring enough raw materials, building enough product, and providing enough infrastructure grid, will likely cause the various regulatory initiatives to be delayed.

 

... Interesting.
In my opinion, we can merge 499P "road car" term, and F250 into one, the next hypercar.
Or not?

Also the "extreme" V6 car will not be positioned above SF90 VS, unless Ferrari is going to make a variant of the V6 hypercar minus electric motors (what sounds for many of us just too good to be true)