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THE 2018 Monterey/Pebble Beach auction thread

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 29, 2018.

  1. ginge82

    ginge82 Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2012
    1,318
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Art Corvelay
    I find it continuously illuminating when those who take to the internet to register their disgust at the money spent on art/cars/real estate etc, automatically ASSUME that those individuals spending are doing little in the way of philanthropy in other areas of their lives. I've met very few at that level who aren't giving away $$$ to various charities and are as passionate about philanthropy as they are art/cars/real estate.

    Whenever confronted about their own levels of giving they always seem to go rather quiet too...
     
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  2. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,665
    That result is -in my humble opinium- very dissapointing!
     
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  3. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 15, 2012
    14,451
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    George Pepper
    Interesting. Seems a lot of "run of the mill(ion)" Ferraris didn't sell, and those sold were low/mid of what was expected.

    My favorite this auction was the Duesenberg SSJ anyway. What a car and what glamorous history.
     
    375+ likes this.
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed BANNED

    Apr 28, 2003
    38,914
    Texas!
    Ah, so for the “Enzo-Era” Ferrari supercars was this year somewhat disappointing or better than expected? Personally I was hoping the Admiral’s car to do better, but I’m hardly an expert.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  5. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    875
    Our friend the Admiral did an admirable (!) work to promote the car during this year, everywhere, in addition to be an extraordinary guardian over 5 decades.

    So we have to assume this is market price for a top car in today’s market.

    Let’s not forget that those are 4 cylinder cars with somehow a limited use...although I like them, had 2 of them ,,and you can be a class winner at PB!

    What is more interesting is that none of the SWB sold, and I personally believe the steel SWB is an 8-8.5musd car all in ( only European brokers tell you stories of cars reaching 9-10m Euros ,,but not at auction).

    The real bargain in my view was the TDF as a good tdf used to be on par with a steel SWB at least when I bought mine.

    Times are changing and taste and choices too!
     
  6. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,088
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Do we know if any of the No Sale eventually sold post auction? Like the SWBs, the 275s, the Superfast?
     
  7. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,621
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    I guess the restamped engine in the TDF would have counted against it?

    I agree with you that asking prices on steel SWB's seem overstated to me, but then I also remember my Dad selling his because it had become a too valuable car to use and enjoy in the way he wanted too. The selling price was multiples less than now and it was not that many years ago.
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    11,911
    If you bought an SWB just about three years ago for 11 M $ you don‘t want to
    let it go now at 8.4 M.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  9. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
    1,985
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Absolutely agree. Further some will have financed their purchase too which wont allow them to sell. A perfect SWB Competizione with a good race history and matching numbers will still be worth low teens but Ferrari buyers are scared off by engine swaps and any lack of provenance.Returning to values, supply and demand is only going to make prices drop, @Saran noted some years ago that there were perhaps 2 - 3 SWB offered at auction (and few privately) between 2006 and 2014, when the first $10 million SWB sold, since 2015 we have seen 5 - 10 SWBs offered per year either privately or via auction and every one expects to fetch top market price.

    Supply and demand was great when there was virtually no supply and inflated demand but now with Lukas Huni showing 10 or 11 SWB at Retromobile '18, all of them supposedly kept in a Swiss cript and all ready for the right offer, any demand has been sated and supply is now artificially high so prices have died. Would be a potentially great time for a future focused collector to low ball offer some of these cars as there will be some future upside to an $8 million SWB, especially once supply reverts to lower numbers and demand returns to a higher plane (might take a decade).

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  10. F12KID

    F12KID F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 27, 2013
    2,574
    Pretty much correct sir
     
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  11. F12KID

    F12KID F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 27, 2013
    2,574
    More like Hypercars if you ask me.....
     
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  12. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2009
    879
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Ted
    When one is for sale and two are looking, it's a seller's market...

    When two are available and there is only one shopper, it's a buyer's market.

    Supply/demand.
     
  13. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    5,932
    SF
    So someone should clear the market of the supply hanging over the market. That's a dangerous game, especially of that supply is just transferred to one other party since that person's collection becomes the over hang. Works better if that over hang is broken up.
     
  14. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    3,338
    Per CNBC, Bugatti and LaFerrari "supercars" were down this year. Thought it was kinda interesting CNBC was breakin' it down - no segment on the Admiral's car, though (should've had a McQueen premium on that beauty!).
     
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  15. TT fan

    TT fan Rookie

    Aug 12, 2014
    13
    Anyone knows if the 275P was sold?
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    11,911
    It‘s for sale by private treaty (sealed bid). Not at any of the auctions.

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 5, 2007
    7,208
    Jacksonville FL
    Full Name:
    Steve Metz
    I thought the Admirals car would have gone a lot higher. I have seen that car a number of times and really like it. Are folks racing SWB's and TDF's still? I have been out of the vintage race scene for the last few years
     
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  18. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,486
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Seems like the Admiral is happy with the sale, but I also think that if the car was sold with less.....competition...around it, maybe it would have fetched a higher price? Who knows...
     
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  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    11,911
    Folks are now racing SWB replicas....... and we idiots pay tons of $$$ to attend Goodwood or Laguna Seca......
    Ten days ago I noticed three Ferrari replicas in the Laguna Seca paddock.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    11,911
    Gooding worked extremely hard to sell it. Underbidder lives in L.A., car goes to Mid west. True collector.
    Oh, btw, you need two to tango.

    Guys, pls get a bit more realistic. Trees don‘t grow into the sky.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  21. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,782
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Agree. Gooding, the Admiral himself and even Jay Leno did everything they possibly could to maximise the exposure to achieve the price realised.
     
  22. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
    372
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Robert Phillips
    As I posted in another thread it looks to me like it was the seventh most expensive car sold at all of the PB auctions. Or second highest Ferrari price at Gooding. But that doesn't really matter because it went to a car guy who will drive it and show it. Am totally pleased by the Gooding performance.
    Best regards,
    Robert
     
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  23. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    5,787
    Four cylinder Ferrari are always a tough sell. They don't have the music of a V12 and the S.II Mondial and 750 Monza with the crash box are more difficult to drive for many. S. I Mondial and 500TRC seem to sell relatively easily.
     
  24. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    875
    Bigger idiots if we pay to race and have our real cars among rich hooligans racing replicas of their real cars...Not only the replicas have more powerful engine than in period, but they can be very aggressive as they don’tcare for a car of little historic and monetary value.
    Classic racing is going in the wrong direction with egos growing even faster than prices!
    Will the new owner of the Admirable Mondial race it in competitive events?
     
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  25. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
    3,253
    With the values these cars have ascended to, it’s pretty understandable. While I don’t have a vintage Ferrari (nor will I likely ever) I have to be honest, if I owned a multi million dollar, historic car I wouldn’t be racing it around a track with a bunch of others. I’d track it and I’d run it in events, but I wouldn’t be racing it.
     

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