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The Bid/Ask Thread

Discussion in '612/599' started by Texas Forever, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    A long time back, somebody who we no longer mention, but used to call himself Napolis, got into an argument with me about F599s. He said they were poseur cars not worthy of mention. I said they were true super cars and if they ever got below $150k, they would be the deal of the century. Lately, Malcolm Barksdale has been calling my bluff and pointing out F599s are indeed below $150k. It is time for me to man up.

    It has been 12 years since I sold my last Ferrari, a 1998 Maranello. So maybe it's time, maybe it's time to forget about those insane repair bills for the damage caused by cheap ass hoses Pep Boys would be embarrassed to throw into their dumpster. Maybe it's time to forget about A/C evaporators going for $8,000. Maybe it's time to forget about fuel smells from gas tanks. Maybe it's time to instead remember how much fun it is to romp on that loud pedal. Just maybe.

    Back in 2003 when I brought the Maranello, I did a spreadsheet of all the cars on the market. Forgive me because I have sinned for bring rationality into the decision to buy a Ferrari, but I am a bean counter. I can't help myself. So I decided to do it again. The difference this time is we have more readily available bid information than we used to have. I have decided to open source my spreadsheet, see attached. Feel free to point out any errors or omissions.

    Because I'm interested in 2007/2008, my findings are limited to those years. Here are my conclusions:

    $90,000 is wholesale on these cars. Any salesman who says they have more into a car than this is a liar. BUT, you and I shouldn't expect to pay wholesale for a car.

    16,000 is the Median Mileage
    $135,400 is the Median Bid.
    $101,900 is the Median Ask.
    25% is the Median Spread.

    I'll comment more later. But what are your thoughts?
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    It looks like you have the bid and ask crossed up. But, I bought an '08 with 26K 2 years ago for 145. Now my car has a bunch of extras like HGTE & GTO grills and is highly optioned. I would expect you can get an 07 for about 100-110. An 08 for about 10K more. That's a nice car and well optioned. BUT, I don't follow the market too closely. I can tell you it is a great car.
     
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  3. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    If you're open to the repair bills then you're good to go!
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Whoops

    16,000 is the Median Mileage
    $135,400 is the Median ASK
    $101,900 is the Median BID
    25% is the Median Spread.
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Typically modern production Ferraris depreciate to about 1/3 of MSRP after ten years. Moreover, they become somewhat commodities. Options help sell a car, but they don't bring much additional money. The main exception for F599s may be the HGTE option. Grills, badges, wheels, seats all gets lost in the shuffle. This is particularly true if you're looking for an unique color. You'll notice there is only one Giallo and two Blu cars in the Ask list. If you want those colors, you don't have much choice in options. But if you want a Nero car, you get to pick and choose because there are so many of them. (Why were there so many black F599s?)

    What has been your experience with annual costs?
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    One of the strange things in putting this list together versus 2003 is eBay. Back then eBay was the only game in town, and cars had multiple bidders and would sell. Today, nothing sells on eBay and most cars don't even have any bids. The ones with bids typically stop at the wholesale level. All the bid action is at BAT.

    I guess dealers are using eBay strictly for advertising? And some of the Ask prices on eBay are bizarre. Right now there are F550 ads wanting $199,000. What's up with that?
     
  7. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Finally, if any of you have access to Sports Car Market auction numbers or other auctions, but withing the last 12 months, please update the spreadsheet and post. I don't have access to that information.
     
  8. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    I don't care what the price is, just buy one now. If you've been ghosting on this site for 12 years, it's time! :D
     
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  9. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    I've been looking for a 599, so this thread has my attention. :). I had an offer in on the infamous 599 rebuild car out of California, but that didn't work out.
    Made an extremely generous offer on a 599 yesterday (SIGNIFICANTLY higher than than the median bid above) which was turned down, so I'm still looking. I'll find one and it will be the deal of the century as these cars are a hoot to drive and own!

    Jim
     
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  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    One of the headwinds you're facing is a low inventory of cars. But this will work itself out soon.
     
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  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I didn't make anybody mad with these statements?

    * $90,000 is wholesale on a 2007/2008 car.

    * Options help sell a car, but don't increase the price after ten years or so.

    * There is no price difference between a 2007/2008.

    * I'd start any offer at $100,000.

    Come on, aren't you guys true to your school? Where are the F599 defenders?

    Ps, if you have any updates on the spreadsheet, please let me know.
     
  12. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    #12 jimshadow, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
    So, I'll disagree that there's a low inventory. Several cars have hit the market since you posted this on Saturday. I'll agree with your assessment of pricing. Asking prices are coming down down down over the past 2 months. I believe that 599's are at their depreciation low point and are a KILLER DEAL in the Ferrari world. I will own one shortly. Currently vetting more than 1 great car and should be planning a drive home in one soon. :)

    Jim
     
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  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Great. If you update the spreadsheet, let me know.
     
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  14. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    Updated with 3 cars and my bid on one of them for now....
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. Patrnflyr

    Patrnflyr Karting

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    Some 2007’s don’t have carbon ceramic brakes. They were optional in the early stages.
     
  16. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

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  17. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

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    My two cents:

    • Cars in from the middle east teed to trade cheaper.
    • UK market is "off" because of RHD configurations along w/ glut of aforementioned middle east cars. Also, there is nowhere to drive them there.
    • Bid/ask not that meaningful. Where does this market clear? A lot of "reserve not met" on BAT of late. Mkt had appeared to freeze up a bit.
    • i started looking at this market about 8 weeks ago. At the time, there were 11 for sale in my country, including two GTOs, and 9 GTBs. Most of these had been on the shelf often for the better part of the year. In the last three weeks, three of the GTBs sold. Might have been the spring air. My guess on price would be between $115k and $145k.
    Fwiw..
     
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  18. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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  20. PeteClemens

    PeteClemens Rookie

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    Yes, I saw this and referenced it. You'll note that most of these auctions did not clear and we don't know (as far as I can tell) what the reserve price was.
     
  21. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    But I included the final result as a "bid price." At least people bid on BAT. Ebay is dead.
     
  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    My spreadsheet is strictly USA.
     
  23. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks
     
  24. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The purpose of bid/ask is to determine the spread. The "ask" is always higher than what a seller expects. The "bid" is always lower than what a buyer expects to pay, but it is a starting point.
     
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  25. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    #25 jimshadow, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
    More cars added today (3). Updated Formulas for lines added. (Feel free to double check me)

    There are a LOT of 599's on the market right now. I know of 2 more coming as well.....I'll be an owner of one soon. :)

    Jim
     

    Attached Files:

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