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The BORA

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    #1 wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    To look at yes but the reality is a bit different.
    They are horrible at under thigh support because the seats are pivot anchored at the front. So that wonderfully, delicious looking long seat is a bit of a disappointment once actually experienced. Your legs typically are a couple of inches above all that delicious cushioning.
    What a pity.

    Maybe if you're short, especially in the legs, it's a different story. I'm 6'1" with long legs and typically I have to tuck my feet under the pedals on long drives. Longest drive I ever did was 16 hours. Never again.

    You can get the seats in two variations. With the pocket style upholstery and in a flatter version with much less padding. Why? Because having an extra 1.5" of leg room that you get with the flatter style seats is a bit deal for larger sized folks. They produced cars with either version of seats USA or European throughout the production run. Obviously if you can fit in the car with the better padded seats go for it!

    The headrest and side bolsters were produced in a very luxurious foam but for the side bolsters it crumbles to sh*t in very short order. Something to watch out for on an original low mileage car. You can usually spot the crumbles under the seat. Rebuilding the side bolsters out of a multi-layered multi-density foam worked out really well for my car.

    The European bumpers are beautiful but not very functional. If you want a beautiful toy that's seldom used then I think that's great. it also what most people want - resale!

    I bought mine in 1987 and I actually drove the car and had a lot of fun. I've had the European bumper conversion since 1988 and never installed it. I probably will when I sell the car. So why not install it? Because the USA bumpers actually work. The European ones are a very expensive albeit stylish joke. Don't get bumped. The front rubber bumper can be set back a couple inches and ends up not unlike the later Pantera bumper and others. The rear is more difficult to hide. It's pretty big but extremely functional. Painting the lower rear valence in a matte black really helps.

    So it's a matter of what you want.

    I suspect that very few Bora owners these days will actually use their cars as I did so maybe you want to go for the pretty and pretty useless European bumpers. The 71-74 cars are the easiest to convert.

    I don't know what all the fuss about the side markers is all about.
    It's much more important to get a good running car that's had the known deficiencies dealt with. Good luck with that. Most cars I've seen still look to be lacking in the engine compartment. That's where most of the issues are with this model.

    All this being said once set-up it's a fantastically great car to experience. Solid, substantial, very GT and still a bit sporty. All this and you can carry a lot of luggage as well.

    Just as Ing. Alfieri intended.
     
  3. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    I mentioned nuttin`about practical usage!
    The seats also don`t held you well in tight corners at higher speeds - but, hey, they look fantastic!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  4. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I know you didn't. Which is why I provided some counterpoint. The beauty is obvious. The rest is not. Much better and more practical car than a Countach, Boxer or Pantera. But different too. It's no hot rod or sports car.

    You're not going to be pulling any 1G turns in a Bora. Especially if you have those skinny XWX tires on it. It's still a blast to drive.
     
  5. Merak1974

    Merak1974 Formula 3

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    The whole car is a 1970s masterpiece... as is the Merak!

    Cheers,
    Gabriel
     
  6. Merak1974

    Merak1974 Formula 3

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    Bob, I'm glad you ended your post with it's "a blast to drive", because that is precisely what those mid-engined 1970s Maseratis are. I did 150 miles with my Merak today (well, yesterday now...) along narrow, twisty roads along the Oslo fjord (beautiful sunny day BTW...), and the car just grows on me; it's a magnificent and very usable road car!

    Cheers,
    Gabriel
     
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  7. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
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    Very interesting, I didn't know the seats on the Bora are so different from the ones Merak. When we did a large trip (over 1000 miles) with my Merak, me and my wife did not have any problems whatsoever with the seats.

    I think the only "design" problem I identified, was that the dashboard lights were not strong enough to illuminate all the dials at night, which made me afraid that if something was wrong I wouldn't be able to detect it in time.

    At no time did we feel cramped (and I'm fairly tall), to the contrary, we felt very comfortable since there was enough room to stretch our legs. But since the seats are no bucket seats, they definitely don't hold you on tight turns, you either hold yourself by the door, or by the center console between the seats or the steering wheel.
     
  8. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    the bora was a better car all around than the 308 or the boxer. performancewise, it fell squarely between the 308 (bora was a good bit faster) and the boxer (bora was not as strong as the bb). the execution and the driving ex[erience was just much nicer that both my 308 and bb. i miss my bora!!!!!

    bora's are never to be sold...just enjoyed and passed down.
     
  9. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I would expect the Merak to have better accommodations as it has that back seat area where the the rest of the V8 is supposed to be. Great for better leg room and "stuff". But with the Bora you can carry full sized garment bags in the rear under the glass hatch each side.

    Yeah, all the instruments look very dim. There are some threads about this common issue with cars that have those instruments. Look in the technical section. I think there are some great bulbs available now. Condensation is another issue. Hey they're very old cars now.
     
  10. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

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    staatsof, thanks for the tip on the bulbs, I'll check it out. Much appreciated.
     
  11. eogorman

    eogorman Formula Junior

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    Hey Bob, i agree the Bora is one of the best driving cars. I just did a 2100 mile trip in mine form SF to the NW for the annual Maserati meet. Kerry did a great job on this one which started in Portland East thru the Columbia River Gorge norht to the Washington wine country and then West over Mt Ranier. The Bora ran great and was quite comfotable for two old people. Next years meet will start in Yosemite so you may want to come West in June
     
  12. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh I can just envision bear claws marks on a Bora ... :)
     
  13. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

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    #13 italiancars, Aug 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Maybe it is time for the Left Coasters to travel East in June to Civilization. We tend to have a better selection of great Maserati than even turn out for Monterey.
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  14. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    What a mouth watering meeting this must have been!
    Thanks for sharing the photo's!

    Ciao,

    Bart
     
  15. Red Head Seeker

    Red Head Seeker Formula 3
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    #15 Red Head Seeker, Aug 14, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
    Please explain why you feel a Bora is more practical than a Pantera, as I feel just the opposite. I feel the Pantera is FAR superior on so many levels....first and foremost being reliablity....A 351 Cleveland motor mated to a ZF transmission is a "Bulletproof" combination, also cost to purchase/maintain Pantera is much more "practical"....Performance wise.....a Pantera runs circles around a Bora....Bora more practical than a Pantera?!......Blasphamey!!!!......Mark






















    ....Bora better than Pantera....that's just blasphamey!!!......Mark
     
  16. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Hi Joe,
    please don`t highjack my thread!!! Here we are on Bora-Bora-Island!

    Thanks!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  17. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 staatsof, Aug 14, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
    OK Mark here goes ... :)
    First we're talking about stock Boras and stock Panteras. No 550HP monsters or 30 years later much improved cars. What runs mostly on the roads today as a Pantera is vastly different than the original. Boras ? Not much of a change.

    The Bora has far more luggage space than a Pantera. Practical!
    The Bora has much better noise and vibration isolation than a Pantera. Double pane rear window and thick insulated fire wall. Practical because this means the occupants get a lot less tired.
    The Bora has a fully adjustable steering column and the pedals also adjust. People comfort.
    Seat comfort? I dunno. Some findthe Bora seats fantastic I think I'm a bit too long legged to agree. Remember no aftermarket seats.

    Now performance wise it did not run circles around a Bora. Remember Mark we're talkin' stock here. The Bora came with a selection of rear end ratios. Mine has no problem with 0-60 of 6 seconds and without dropping the clutch at 3K. I know it sounds slow now but back in the 1970s that and high speed capability meant you were in a super car. You can hit 150 with that ratio and if you want top end then you can change the ratio and it will do 160. That's most I've ever seen and that was at 5000ft at Ely in the Silver State.

    Now let's talk about reliability shall we? So I ran the Silver state in various cars for 4 years starting in 1989 when I was in a Bora. What all of us noticed those first few years is that within the first 5 of a 90 mile race all the Panteras were busted along side the road. Go look it up. Not surprising really because most were high HP monsters designed to impress in short bursts which they do very, very well. Sustaining top speed for 90 miles and 30 minutes if another matter. The Pantera guys eventually got their cars sorted out.

    Same gearbox.

    Ford engine is clearly cheaper to run. There aren't really any reliability issues with the 4.9L V8 just stupid or cheap owner issues. Lot's of them ran fine to 100K if they were run regularly. Contrary to what some people think a properly set-up set of Webers doesn't require constant fiddling on this Maserati V8.

    I wish there was as much stuff for the Bora as there is for the Pantera. The Pantera wins that one hands down.

    After a long (all day) drive in the Bora you don't feel beat-up and your ear drums aren't throbbing.

    But ... that's probably what attracts you to the Pantera? It's much more raw and visceral. You can make them go very quickly with not nearly as much money. So enjoy and celebrate the differences of these cars. I in no way meant to imply that the Pantera was a bad car. It's just not as sophisticated and luxurious a GT car.

    Just look what Gene O'Gorman just had to say about his lengthy journey.

    The Bora is also no race car .

     
  18. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    To be clear ... those photos are from multiple events over the years. Still, there were some great cars that showed up at that event over the years. Very few Boras though ... :(
     
  19. Red Head Seeker

    Red Head Seeker Formula 3
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    Appreciate your thoughts and input, I do take exception when you initially start your comparision/s by being very specific about "Stock Cars"....then when you make your reliability comparision, you talk about your 1989 Silver state trip where the "High H.P. monsters" (Panteras) were breaking down, not a fair measure of "reliablity", considering your "stock parameters" guideline/s.....Completely AGREE with you in regards to noise levels of the Pantera & the cabin heat issues....first thing/s I did when I purchased my Pantera was remove the A.C. & install 180 degree headers....I am extremely engaged in the visceral aspect of driving "ALL" my cars.....one thing about the Pantera's is their propensity in stock configeration to experience "Front-End Float" at speeds approaching 140mph +.....Always have to laugh at exaggerated Pantera owners "High Speed" claims.....a long race track straightaway & a radar gun make many a Pantera's owner's claim(?) of high speed accomplishments, child-like fantasies......Mark
     
  20. hyenahf

    hyenahf Formula 3
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    can you tell visually by looking at them? which version is the posted pic?

    i must agree... its a work of art

    cheers

    HF
     
  21. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    See, we agree much more than we disagree. The Bora has some front end wander as well at speed. You have to hold the steering wheel lightly and not try and correct for every L->R movement it makes. Invigorating at 160 mph but not endearing. It lifts it's rear almost 2 inches at speed too. By that time the modern cars just kicked those old Italian beauties asses. One year I passed a Daytona in my Q45 with my wife on board. That guy looked shocked as hell.

    No one ever showed up at the Silver State with a stock Pantera when I was there. That was the whole point. They were there to kick some ass! There are some interesting if scary stories about what transpired. But they made them work. It's just money. :)
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    If you look closely you can see the pocket style cushions on that example. The padded pockets are quite deep. Much more expensive seats to reupholster too. Whereas the the other style is about 1/2" of padding with nothing more than a horizontal cross stitch.
     
  23. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    Bora has a much better built frame too. The pantera is tack welded and most that I have seen need to be beefed up from all the flex.
     
  24. hyenahf

    hyenahf Formula 3
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    Theres a maserati blog type website has some fantastic step by step images of the bora seats being restored. i'd see if i can located the link to post up.

    i always wonder how "bora" name was picked up and used so quickly by volkswagen in placed of jetta "to throw away".
     
  25. Johnny Prezemullo

    Apr 24, 2006
    144
    By the way: were all Boras built with the hydropneumatic system or the last one`s without what I was told ?
     

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