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The BORA

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2006
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    Marc Sonnery
    I visited His shop this winter and was very very impressed, one of the very best out there. The competence and expertise at hand was superb. He is a very nice guy and very passionate about the Trident, highly recommendeded.
     
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  2. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    395
    Thank you for your valued opinion.
    Brilliant!

    Regards.
     
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  3. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    673
    New York and Norway
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    Art
    Just a quick report from a day of driving the Bora yesterday... something we already know: What a fabulous touring machine! An Alfa/Lancia friend met me in the country and we took turns driving the Bora around the back roads for a few hours, just enjoying the balance, the power, the aroma, the lovely noises..

    It refreshed my absolute amazement at the level of chassis engineering that went into it, some 45 years ago. 4 hours of good hard driving and it just wanted to keep going..

    ..with a trunk full of tools and coveralls so I could drop by and work on the Khamsin before I went home.
    A lovely day.
    View attachment 2710479 View attachment 2710481
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
    155
    Sydney Australia
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    Greg G
    Borologist.
    Nothing is never that straight forward . I actually have a very good relationship with the engine builder and i have no concerns that he will not honor his work.
    The couple of times i spoke to him about taking the car to his premises didn't suit me just as much it also wasn't the best time for him. Its currently winter here in oz and my time is taken up renovating my daughters property which is my the priority prior to the birth of her 2nd child and i travelling overseas. I'm not a pushover and assure you if I wanted this sorted immediately it would have been done.I will now get onto it in September.when the weather is warmer and get to the bottom of the over heating problem which will also include re -torquing the heads.In the meantime the Bora will restup for the winter.
    Ivan i appreciate you posting the re-torquing sequence but i don't like tinkering with items that are under warranty.. I think we all know of Murphy's Law.
     
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  5. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    Greg, an additional factor to check with regards to overheating: Carburetor mixture setting.
    I just tweaked my carbs an 1/8 of a turn leaner because my plugs are showing pure black, and I notice the running temperature has increased by several degrees C. The plugs are now showing very dark brown, and another 1/8 turn leaner brought on an over-lean non-fire condition. It's probably worth checking whether a lean carburetor setting may be contributing to your overheating.
    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  6. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    395
    +1
     
  7. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    Greg's on the right path IMHO. He's not going to learn anything about overheating during winter by adjusting the carbs. Boras absolutely love cool weather.
    He wants the guy who did his car to be the first to tackle the issue. Seems quite sensible. They may come up with a solution that's good enough for how he's going to use the car.

    Keep a log and lot's of notes Greg. Now finish up your remodel job! :)
     
  8. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
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    Greg G
    Art.
    Thank you for your input but if anything i think it could be running a but rich but all will be revealed.
    Bob.
    Exactly no point in trying to solve the problem now that doesnt exist in the cooler months.
    Regards
     
  9. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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  10. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    150
    Belgium
    What was the purpose: does such a set improve the perfs?
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    Well the guys who did it were thinking so ...
    I met them in Sacramento shortly after buying my Bora in 1987. They made a number of modifications. It was a father son team and the son was into racing. Nice guys. Tragically the son was killed. I forget how but I think the Bora caught on fire and burnt? Definitely not a standard Bora. I have no idea as to performance. I suspect the car was parted out ...
     
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  12. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    48's would flow more than the stock 42's, so with a carefully matched cam profile, one ought to be able to get more RPM and thus HP out of a 4.9.. longer runners should yield more torque in lower rpms too. Would be fascinating to see what a dyno chart looked like.

    Apropos - Wasn't there someone here asking for any details on "hotrodding" a 4.9? IIIRC ....it was a thread asking if anyone knew what HP mods Thepenier did to increase power on his Group B Bora...
    - Art
     
  13. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2006
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    Marc Sonnery
    Hello Art, see my articles and book. FYI it was Group 4 not Group B and Thepenier did not do anything it was all done at the factory for him, there were only a few test days before the program got cancelled.
     
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  14. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    673
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    Art
    Good morning,
    Has anyone taken apart their Bora's rear suspension lately? Got any advisory procedures, approaches, methods, or advice to share?

    'Marco' gave me some unusual vibrations last month and I found he needs new rear A-arm bushings, so I'm starting disassembly today. I'll replace most any rubber I can find; sway bar bushings and spring perches while I'm in there, maybe shocks too, whatever MIE has available.
    - Compress spring.
    - Lift car.
    - Remove road wheel.
    - Remove shock and spring.
    - Disconnect brake line and cables.
    - Start unbolting stuff that's in the way..

    I'll take photos and notes and share my experience here for posterity..
    The first photo is of the most offending bushing.. :eek: then a sample of two others..



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  15. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah, sorry but I did mine when I dropped the entire subframe and engine as an assembly so that's wildly different from what you're doing.
     
  16. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior
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    Elliot M. Siegel
    I noticed the shims use to set the correct attitude of the suspension shown in the picture. I would suggest that the gaps showing are not the best what to have them positioned. The factory shims were square with a slot in them that just cleared the studs which would make for a more secure pad for mounting. Making tighter fitting shims wouldn't be hard or expensive. Just a thought.
     
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  17. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

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    Art
    Thank you Elliot,
    Their "slot" gaps also look un-even, suggesting some stress-induced movement. I'll have them all replaced.
    - Art
     
  18. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
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    Greg G
    Art.
    It really is a straightforward process from what i recall but as Bob remarked i also went much further as everything was removed sandblasted and painted prior to assembly.I would investigated further why those non standard shims have been fitted. In my car i only have 3 - 4 shims probably around 2mm thick or less each.
    Greg
     
  19. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    395
    Hello---

    Excellent points raised above.

    My 2 cents would be that Boras are incredibly sensitive to the condition of these bushes---and sadly unless you replace them all at one go, you will be chasing them forever---very similar concept as dealing with our hydraulics!

    Regards.
     
  20. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Art, have you had up on a good alignment rack with a very qualified technician who has set up plenty of mid engine cars? When the car is traveling fast and hard then under breaking the rear tends to toe out which lead to all kinds of unwanted behavior if it's doing it even more so due to a bad static alignment or if the bushings are sloppy. A good technician can try to force movement give you an assessment as to whether it's really time to replace them.
     
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  21. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    673
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    Art
    Thanks all,

    The alignment during which these shims were installed was performed some 3 years ago after I replaced the front suspension bushings. It's the same alignment shop and technician I collaborate with on my track car so I feel comfortable with his work, but I will have a discussion about better-fitting shims. Why the shims are such a thick stack is a good question - I got the readout, and the specs are per Maserati's recommendations - including the positive front camber. At the time I attributed it to the completely unknown factory assembly conditions: Was the frame welded together on a Monday after a weekend bender? Was it done on a Friday and an apprentice was in a rush to see his Bella? ..can't even say whether the bushings may have already been seriously worn at that point.

    In the end, the Bora has handled well all that time, very predictable, tire wear showed no asymmetry, and continued to track and feel solid and true ... Or maybe I got used to it the way it is, flaws and all, and the next alignment will be a revelation.!

    All the rubber at the rear will be replaced in this go-around. There's no point doing a complete dis-assembly and leaving anything old in place. We shall see what changes this precipitates at the next alignment.

    Thinking of other factors affecting overall geometry, it is obviously time to have a close look at the main subframe isolator bushings as well..
    - Art
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Those are not rubber. It's a vibration isolating device made from steel wool. Vibrachoc I think? They're also used on my Lamborghini for the rear exhaust and the transmission where it works not so well ... The tranny will bounce up and down and get into weird oscillations with road. The shift stick pogos up and down! :eek: Some of use have added a poured in urethane (not me) and supposedly that has helped but the basic construct is one of a spring packed with steel wool. Sometimes when I was traveling at top speed ... I used to think about what holds that engine in place, the flimsy fiberglass bulkhead between me and all of that machinery and then think about adding a safety chain in case that rear, rubber isolated mount bar and those bolts in the Vibrachocs should fail ... By the time I finished running that ugly scenario through my brain my speed had dropped in HALF! LOL.

    So maybe after a lot of miles they develop some slop ????

    Have you ever driven with the cover off and watched the entire engine bob up and down? :eek: Worse than Lamborghini! LOL

    Art, we're all nuts!

    But another thing to look at is whether your rear springs have sagged. Many Bora's (earlier ones) did. The A-arms should be level.
     
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  23. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
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  24. GLB

    GLB Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2010
    272
    When you reassemble the upper control arm brackets, be sure they're held level as the nuts are tightened. The shop used by the previous owner of my car did not when tightening one bracket and in only 2000 miles the bushings were destroyed again.
     
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah in general all suspension pieces involving rubber under load have to be tightened with the suspension loaded.
     

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