The BORA | Page 55 | FerrariChat

The BORA

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011.

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  1. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
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    Mark Oliver
    I forgot, there are also some Merak hydraulic bits on ebay in the UK now if you need some…
     
  2. christof schlicht

    Mar 12, 2020
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    christof
    The windscreen should not be the problem. Two years ago, I could buy a windscreen in brand new ( not NOS). I guess, the "De Tomaso Pantera" windscreen is the same and will also fit ....
     
  3. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    Bad Guess.
     
  4. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  5. Astonish78

    Astonish78 Karting

    Sep 11, 2014
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  6. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
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    Greg G
    Frankly. You would be better getting a new radiator made rin Aluminium for better cooling than an original radiator. Any competent radiator company would easily do this for you..
     
  7. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
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    Greg G
    Mr Fiat has windscreens available...
     
  8. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Well this is rather disappointing. I like that they paid some attention to it but between Jay and Donald whom I know I'm not sure there's a lot of knowledge about the Bora or the other Maseratis with the LHM system on them and Citroen's ownership of Maserati in general. Lots of misinformation in it and their drive didn't highlight the car's greatness. The Wayne Carini part was kind of weird but his shop fixed the car recently. Hopefully Jay gets educated more about the car and does one of his videos out in California. That sort of exposure might help Boras.

     
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  9. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    I just watched the video.. I found it interesting.. I wasn't sure when the video was made but a couple of things I noticed:
    1. Donald Osborne seemed to really like the car, at one point he suggests he and Jay should go Bora Shopping
    2. Wayne Carini references Blockley (?) tires for the car. Never heard of these, will have to look them up and
    see what that is all about
    3. Both Donald and Jay opined a few times (I think) as to why the Bora isn't worth as much as the equivalent
    Ferrari. Both seemed to think it should be.

    Bob - Donald references a friend of his who took his Bora on a couple of the 1000 rallyes/drives. Is he referring
    to you? :)

    As I said, I found it interesting. Probably not a bad idea to watch it.

    Mike
     
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  10. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    i think i have some orig bonnett/engine cover lift struts available.
     
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  11. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    No it wasn't me he was referring to. I got to know him a little bit when he was working as a host at the Le Belle Machinne 3 day weekend shows in the Poconos. That was only for a couple of years and I didn't have my Bora at that show back then. I had my GOC race car, my 84 Biturbo and my then newly acquired 71 Espada. Donald had an Islero at the time which Adam Carolla paid way too much money, at the time, for at auction. He moved out to California to do the Dana Point concours after that. I did take quite a few long trips with my Bora.

    When they talked about it having the Citroen power steering I nearly lost it. Jay at least should know better since he did a segment with Doug Magnin's Khamsin and I even think he owns an SM.
    AFAIK Citroen had zero to do with designing the Bora other than their wind tunnel was used to test it's Cd.

    Maybe Marc S. can weigh in?

    If they'd done more wind tunnel development testing maybe the Bora might not be so unstable at speed and they might have figured out the air flow for cooling much better than they did.
    My 1990 Q45 had a lot of that testing, a very low Cd and was an absolute delight @ 160 MPH by comparison at Ely. No overheating though it did automatically shut down the AC at that speed.
     
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  12. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,357
    Hershey, PA
    I haven’t watched the video as of yet, but I was texting back and forth with Donald when they were shooting this segment just before Christmas. The car was purchased new in LA by Nick Begovich, it was stored in a warehouse until it was “recommissioned” last year.

    i told Donald he should drive a Bora, LP400 Countach, 365 BB and Pantera back to back. He find the Bora is the best car, not the fastest or most exotic but the Best overall car.
     
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  13. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Marc Sonnery
    Hi Bob,

    From all my interviews 2007-2012 for my Maserati the Citroen years 2013 book and of course that of Guy Malleret, the administrator put in charge by Citroen President Pierre Bercot, it is very clear that it was Bercot who, having decided to acquire the Trident firm, wanted to dust off Maserati's reputation for old fashioned technology as seen in the leaf springs and live axle of the Ghibli.

    The Bora was to be a halo car and had to be mid engined to show Maserati was back at the technological forefront yet confortable and pleasant for long trips. they also wanted good handling, a decent trunk and in all that under Alfieri's leadership once he was given this mission, they were successful as the Bora handles better than all the other first generation mid engined supercars and is more pleasant to travel in.

    Five time Le mans winner Derek Bell in a multi super car test years ago for Classic & Sports car was very very impressed by his first Bora drive.

    Regarding Jay oh yes he has owned an SM for many decades and knows it by heart. He did a column about it recently in Octane. Jerry Hathaway was maintaining it and it is Jerry who put me in touch with Jay.

    There was talk with Doug Magnon of a Bora segment after I put them together for the Khamsin one but then Doug passed so suddenly....
     
  14. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you consider the Bora and Khamsin French, softer versions of what Maserati typically built? That was communicated in their banter in the car.
     
  15. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Marc Sonnery
    Absolutely not.
    And to repeat myself Pierre Bercot was hugely respectful of Maserati he loved and admired the company and wanted to protects its persona its ethos at all cost, he actually forbade any of the many Citroen Paris headquarters to interfere with, tamper with Maserati. Everything had to go through hi and Malleret.

    It was Bercot as worldwide President of Citroen with his delegated adminstrator Guy Malleret who ran things. Dominique Drieux was head of the commercial department, Thierry Lecesne in charge of acquisitions (of supplies) and the fourht and last Frenchman (even though his name sounds Italian) was Nicoletti in charge of production.

    That was it; just four Frenchmen at the factory, specifically not to dilute Maserati, to preserve its way.

    The hydraulics were NOT imposed by Citroen at all, they were ASKED by Giulio Alfieri who was 1-a fan of Citroen technology 2-acutely aware that brakes needed to be improved and the LHM Citroen brakes were much better than the traditional ones.

    There is no way anyone can say Boras and Khamsins are softer in any way. Less tiresome to drive yes with better sound insulation and the use of hydraulics making the car less heavy to operate but not diluted absolutely not.
     
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  16. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    That's why I found that discussion so disappointing coming from two guys who know a lot about cars. Donald needs to do an edit and add a better example of driving which with that car where is resides is probably not so easy to do locally. I've driven in that area twice and I don't remember any great roads to take a car soaring?

     
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  17. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!

    I had heard this same thing but from another source, an early 70s Maserati employee named Tolek who later came to the US. Tolek owned and ran a shop just outside Boston (specifically Watertown, MA). Tolek had stated all Citroen did was give Alfieri a bigger parts bin to work with but otherwise completely stayed away. He assembled and tested the C114 engines for quite a while including a few for the Citroen SM Michelin prototype which used 48IDA carburetors.
     
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  18. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior
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    Alfieri was thinking about the other mid-engine cars and the lack of usable space for suitcases and the like and understood that the typical Maserati driver would use the car differently than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. I suspect, when looking at the market that Maserati was aiming for, a trunk that didn't fry the luggage was a positive for the Maserati image and by eliminating the vacuum brake booster required for most modern cars and using the Citroen braking system he gave Giugiaro the ability to design a mid engine car that had a real trunk. It certainly had to cross everyone's mind that this could be done with what Citroen offered from the parts bin.
     
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  19. Conaero

    Conaero Rookie

    Dec 2, 2013
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    Matthew Yates
    Might need them thanks
     
  20. Conaero

    Conaero Rookie

    Dec 2, 2013
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    Matthew Yates
    So I have found a company who can make the radiator with twin fans mounted to it, trouble is, I have no template to work from.

    Has anyone got an old one I could buy/borrow to have the pattern made. I will arrange couriers both ways. I would then share the company so anyone else who wanted one could simply order direct.
     
  21. Conaero

    Conaero Rookie

    Dec 2, 2013
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    Or could one of you kind chaps measure one for me?

    core size (minus the end tanks WxHxD)

    and the tanks on each end, just the height (shortest measurement) so I can get an overall size.

    The rest I can work out from pictures..

    Anyone else want one? It’s cheaper if I order more than one?
     
  22. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2016
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    Art
  23. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2016
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    A few more pics...
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    I have a good aluminum radiator fabricator I work with as well. Aluminum radiators on their own work a little better and are certainly lighter, but given the opportunity to make something entirely custom here you can also improve on the design, if space permits. Measure where the radiator sits up front as well, and if space permits, ask if your guy can use a thicker core (3 or 4 wide rows I believe) which makes the entirety of the radiator just a bit thicker but also a lot more efficient. I did this with a run of Ferrari 308 radiators and they work fabulous.
     
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    There's already lots of info on this here. This guy left in a huff after getting to it with a moderator but his posts are still here. Boralogist. His apparently works better than mine did. You can fit a 2" core and the prefered fins/inch is 11. I have 14 and it's too dense IMHO. The stock radiators suck.
     

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